The Aerodrome Forum - View Single Post - Fokker Streaky Camouflage Fabric

AchimEngels · 14 August 2002, 07:55 AM

Stefen,

let me again answer you step by step.

1. I know of course that this three color hypothesis is nothing mentioned previously.

Here are my reasons for this. Please let us make clear here that this of course is an assumption of mine so far. It may well be that you and the documents you mention are right on that and that I am wrong. There is no use to discuss this since I do not see any proof (until now) of being wrong, nor do I see a proof that I am right. It is just another approach and something that should be considered.

Here we go:

a.) we have the remains of what is said to have come from 144/17 held at the Imperial War Museum at London. According to the investigations on these fabric samples executed by Paul Leaman there was the olive green and underneath that what is described as "turqoise" and was identified so kindly by Dan-San with the Methuen book of colors numbers.

b.) the way those colors are applied onto the fabric may well influence the general appearance of an aircraft bearing this paint sheme. One might have looked more green, another one more blueish and a third one more tan (linen color).

c.) taking into account the way the salvage reports might have been carried out the describtion of an aircraft painted in several green shades may well fit into this figure. A two color appearance and a describtion that way may well have been correct for those aircraft.

d.) a three color sheme achieved the way I suggest would be something that lays on hand when working with those colors.

e.) the photographs (not only the one I included above) "indicate" that mix of two colors and the natural linen -at least in my eyes. *: *???

Here is another one which makes me see this:

2. The colors you reffer to have been taken from the drawing of the Fokker D.VIII and are for sure not true paints. These have been powders to color a paint. I have unfortunately never seen the original drawing giving the German words for those colors and their quantity. That way we do relay on the person who did those translations. This is too vague for me and does not lead me anywhere. I relay on the German words given with the Fokker triplane drawings which I have here copies of.

The matter of these paints and designation of these are a very complicated thing. The FTS is working here together with Mr. Kiroff (www.rlm-farben.de). Mr. Kiroff is the owner of a paint developing company here who also creates and recreates vintage paints for aircraft and other vehicles. He will for sure join this discussion later on. We will also conduct more much more detailed experiments at a later time. This will become very interesting.

4. I am not expert enough with the influence of type of films used to take those images. So I have to trust what you say here.

5. The source of the term "turqoise" is mentioned above. One of the major attempts with these testings is to find out how differend types of paint change during the duration of the experiment. So we will have to wait what experiment brings up the best "turqoise" to match with the samples at the IWM

6. I absolutely agree with you on the wet on wet paint applicaton. This would on one hand save time and on the other increase the total number of color shades. And imagine an aircraft almost completely covered with light blueish grey over which a olive was aplied in that wet on wet methode. Would that not leve the impression of an overall green airplane as described in the selvage reports?

14 August 2002, 07:55 AM	#8 (permalink)
AchimEngels Forum Ace Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Schorndorf - Germany Posts: 2,486	Stefen, let me again answer you step by step. 1. I know of course that this three color hypothesis is nothing mentioned previously. Here are my reasons for this. Please let us make clear here that this of course is an assumption of mine so far. It may well be that you and the documents you mention are right on that and that I am wrong. There is no use to discuss this since I do not see any proof (until now) of being wrong, nor do I see a proof that I am right. It is just another approach and something that should be considered. Here we go: a.) we have the remains of what is said to have come from 144/17 held at the Imperial War Museum at London. According to the investigations on these fabric samples executed by Paul Leaman there was the olive green and underneath that what is described as "turqoise" and was identified so kindly by Dan-San with the Methuen book of colors numbers. b.) the way those colors are applied onto the fabric may well influence the general appearance of an aircraft bearing this paint sheme. One might have looked more green, another one more blueish and a third one more tan (linen color). c.) taking into account the way the salvage reports might have been carried out the describtion of an aircraft painted in several green shades may well fit into this figure. A two color appearance and a describtion that way may well have been correct for those aircraft. d.) a three color sheme achieved the way I suggest would be something that lays on hand when working with those colors. e.) the photographs (not only the one I included above) "indicate" that mix of two colors and the natural linen -at least in my eyes. : ??? Here is another one which makes me see this: 2. The colors you reffer to have been taken from the drawing of the Fokker D.VIII and are for sure not true paints. These have been powders to color a paint. I have unfortunately never seen the original drawing giving the German words for those colors and their quantity. That way we do relay on the person who did those translations. This is too vague for me and does not lead me anywhere. I relay on the German words given with the Fokker triplane drawings which I have here copies of. The matter of these paints and designation of these are a very complicated thing. The FTS is working here together with Mr. Kiroff (www.rlm-farben.de). Mr. Kiroff is the owner of a paint developing company here who also creates and recreates vintage paints for aircraft and other vehicles. He will for sure join this discussion later on. We will also conduct more much more detailed experiments at a later time. This will become very interesting. 4. I am not expert enough with the influence of type of films used to take those images. So I have to trust what you say here. 5. The source of the term "turqoise" is mentioned above. One of the major attempts with these testings is to find out how differend types of paint change during the duration of the experiment. So we will have to wait what experiment brings up the best "turqoise" to match with the samples at the IWM 6. I absolutely agree with you on the wet on wet paint applicaton. This would on one hand save time and on the other increase the total number of color shades. And imagine an aircraft almost completely covered with light blueish grey over which a olive was aplied in that wet on wet methode. Would that not leve the impression of an overall green airplane as described in the selvage reports? __________________ To get permanent access to the FTS download archive, You can apply here: MEMBER APPLICATION. Or buy some of our books on early aviation on CD-Rom just to support our work. :-)