[Billy_Bishop]

Just because someone may doubt Bishop's record doesn't make them pro-German. By the same token, you can be "Pro-German" and still believe Bishop claimed in good faith.

I just don't see the point in dredging up arguments that have been repeated here too many times already, and really go no where.

To answer the next question, do I think that Bishop shot down 72 enemy aircraft? No. As most of us know and realize, mistakes are made in wartime. And with a system as loose as the RFC/RNAS/RAF's was, mistakes are likely to abound.

BUT, I also don't think he made claims for victories that he didn't think were honest victories.

By the same token, I'm sure that the Red Baron honestly thought he'd shot down 80 enemy aircraft as well. Even though we now know that he didn't.

BUT to put the burden of proof on Bishop, seems to me to be a bit too much. He made the claims, provided the details, such as they were, and it was up to his Squadron CO as well as higher HQ to confirm or deny his claims.

To say that RFC/RNAS/RAF victory claims rules were lax, is an understatement. BUT, by some accounts, Bishop had at least 5, and as many as 25 UNCONFIRMED claims that were not allowed by his superior officers.

As to his VC raid of 2 June, 1917, there is at least evidence that he flew out, went over the enemy lines (his aircraft was pretty well damaged) and flew back.

Whether he did what he said, I doubt we'll ever find anything that will prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt at this late stage. But, lacking any real proof to the contrary, I don't see what's so wrong with believing his side of the story.

As to the completeness of German records, well, let's just say that if you consider handwritten copies of them, taken between wars to make them complete, that's your opinion. But it has been said to me that only TWO original Jasta War Diaries still exist. And so far as I know, neither of them belong to units that Bishop fought against.

VBR,

Al Lowe