About VC's

[Billy_Bishop]

I can't remember who, but someone once made a statement to the effect that there were probably people who deserved the VC in WWII who didn't get it because of the liberal way it was handed out in WWI.

Well, if that's the case, the deserving individuals must have been infantry. According to the Victoria Cross Reference the total awards in WWI to members of the RFC, AFC, RAF and RNAS total up to 16.

In WWII for the RAF, RAFVR, FAA, RCAF, RNZAF, RAAF, and SAAF add up to 31.

Questions? Comments??? Seems like it must have been harder for a pilot or air crew person to get the VC in WWI don't it?

VBR,

Al Lowe

[Barrett]

Al: If the WW 2 aircrews got twice as many VCs as the 14-18 guys, it's probably due to the much larger air force in 39-45--many times the flying personnel, I'd guess. Where the discrepancy really shows, however, is in fighter pilots: a dozen or so in WW I and only one the next time, and that was a Canadian (I can hear the cheering from here) Corsair pilot KIA practically the last day of hostilities: Robert Hampton Gray. His award wasn't for aerial combat, but for pressing an attack on a Jap escort vessel.
Whatever the WW II criteria may have been, I submit that the most overlooked British Empire aviator was Pattle, whose results were so far beyond anyone else that he certainly should have been nominated for a posthumous VC. My guess is that due to the loss of wartime records (since reconstructed from many sources) that the hierarchy didn't realize the extent of his actions in N Africa and Greece in 1941.
It raises an interesting question: does the VC charter permit consideration of awards this long after the event? Pattle's exploits are well documented from both the RAF and enemy side, so there's some rationale for it. Comments?

[Vic_Mouton]

My very first question on this forum was about Marmaduke Pattle and his exploits. I can only say that I second Barret's proposal.

VBR
Vic

[Billy_Bishop]

I have no problem with that. Pattle definitely should get the VC.

It's just that the message as I recall it seemed to be trying to compare pure numbers of VCs.

The way I see it, regarding the VC awards in WWI, air fighting was a new concept. Consequently just FLYING, deserved a medal in some cases. But by 1939, it was more accepted as an everyday happening. I think that had more to do with the way VCs were handed out more than anything else.

VBR,

Al Lowe

The total number of VC's awarded to aircrew in the Great War was 19. Which for the record were as follows:

Rhodes-Moorhouse Warneford
Hawker Liddell
Insall Bell-Davies
Rees Robinson
Mottershead McNamara
Bishop Ball
McLeod Jerrard
McCudden West
Barker Beauchamp-Proctor
Mannock

I don't know enough about the WWII VC's to be able to comment but the size of air forces would indicate similar difficulty, although I understand only one RAF Fighter Command pilot got a VC in the latter conflict, which might indicate a tightening in standards.

Happy New Year to everyone.

Best Regards, Andrew

[Billy_Bishop]

Someone better yell at the VC Reference then, their statistics for the individual services didn't add up. The awards are there by name though.

VBR,

Al Lowe