By the way...

[Billy_Bishop]

Regarding a comment by FokkDR1 to me and my supposed favorite sports hero, there's no such thing as a sports hero. Not to me anyway.

As far as Rosie Ruiz, I never really cared for marathons anyway.

The closest person to being a sports hero to me is former Cincinnati Reds Catcher, Johnny Bench. And I'd LOVE to see someone TRY and prove his record false!

For another take on Bishop, some of you might want to check out Expert Testimony by R.W. Bradford of the Canadian National Aviation Museum.

[mike_baram]

Al,
Re marathons, I can understand that...after the first 20 miles it's no longer fun.
But how about Billy Mills in Tokyo, 1964? Tell me that wasn't the most awesome display of courage in sports.
Merry Xmas and happy New Year.
Mike

[Barrett]

While I'm still waiting for evidence--any evidence--that Bishop's VC was merited, I whole heartedly agree with Al about "sports heroes." The term itself is objectionable, and I felt strongly enough about the subject to write an editorial for The Hook Magazine titled "Heroism 101." My contention is that unless the penalty for failure in any endeavor involves death, dismemberment, or torture, it is NOT heroic and needs to be called something else.
What finally set me off was the unending, unthinking description of OJ Simpson as a "sports hero." Since the worst thing that happened to OJ was not making the playoffs in a given season, the perception of him as any sort of hero denigrated the real heroes I know, some of whom wear the Medal of Honor or Ritterkreuz, and many who wear no decorations at all.
BTW: anybody notice that since his vow to "spend every waking moment finding the killer" of his wife and Ron Goldman, OJ's been diligently seeking the culprit on a variety of golf courses?

[Billy_Bishop]

Actually, I can think of one person who comes close to filling the bill of "true" sports hero, though it wasn't a sport then.

That's the guy who ran the very FIRST marathon to tell fellow Athenians about the victory at the Battle of Marathon. He comes close.

VBR,

Al Lowe

Sorry that you were not able to draw an anology
between Rosie Ruiz and Billy Bishop. In the future I'll temper my comments to be understood by someone more provincial.

VBR,

FokkDR1

[Billy_Bishop]

If "more provincial" means "less educated" then you're on the right track.

I fail to see any connection between a sports figure who cheated, and a military hero who's name was dragged through the mud for no reason other than to stir up controversy.

VBR,

Al Lowe
4-bit amateur aviation historian and/or enthusiast

[Barrett]

Al: you may be right, since if I remember the story correctly, the Spartan who had run those 26 miles delivered his message, then dropped dead from the effort!

Hi Barrett,

Not related to this thread, previously you'd mentioned that you corresponded with Alfred Hertaux. In your correspondence, did you ever discuss his fight with Kurt Wintgens. Curious because I was given some Wintgens memorabilia
recently. Thanks.

Dennis

[Billy_Bishop]

Yup, that's what happened, he ran 26 miles, said "We won!", then fell dead on the spot.

Personally, I think he was stupid. I wouldn't have run that far, that fast just to say "we won", and kill myself doing it.

But that's just my humble opinion.

VBR,

Al Lowe
4-bit amateur aviation historian and/or enthusiast

[mike_baram]

OK.....a couple of points, gang...
First, the guy's name was Pheidippides, and he was an Athenian courier who took the message to Sparta. Sparta had refused to send aid to the Athenians, but they kicked Persian butt anyway. Depending on the legend you read, Pheidippides ran to Sparta for aid, got a resounding "Nyet", ran back to Marathon, fought in the battle, and ran back to Sparta, gasped "Rejoice, we conquer" (in Greek, of course) and died. The distance was 25 miles from Marathon to Sparta (three times, so he ran 75 miles - the modern 26.2 miles dates from the 1904 Olympics when the course was modified to enable the royal family to watch the race from their castle).
As for the term "hero", one accepted definition is "a person...admired for courage, nobility, or exploits, esp. in war; any person admired for qualities or achievements and regarded as an ideal or model".
Let's forget Orinthal James (Slasher) Simpson....but there are plenty of people in many fields who qualify as heroes. A lot depends on your own values and attitudes. Which is why I can count Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain as a hero, and Billy Mills also...both performed above and beyond what was expected of them, yet I would not try to compare Chamberlain risking his life with Mills doing the impossible on a track.
By the same token, Frank Luke can qualify as a hero, as can Winston Churchill, as long as you define a norm for each field of endeavor, and the person in question performs way beyond that norm.