Provincialism

It has been said that a war usually has the effect of subduing conflicts within a country. But, I think that, even in a wartime, there were still some feuds between soldiers for various reasons. Among those feuds, wasn't there anything that was based on provincialism? For example, in case of German pilots, wasn't there any feud between Bavarians and Prussians? With just some 40 years passing since their unification, it is probable that their domestic unity wasn't fully consolidated. It's also probable for the Italians with just 50 years passing and for any other country. Was there any significant trouble that was of provincial character among pilots of any country in WWI? Any comment on this subject will be appreciated.

Some of the more rigid British officers filed official complaints about their empire counterparts or subordinates. (For some reason, Canadians came in for the majority of these complaints, possibly because Canadians were the majority of empire officers in the RFC/RAF.) These complaints usually focused on the imperial officers' lack of decorum -- they laughed loudly, called fellow officers by first name, didn't always do their laundry, that sort of thing.

This usually didn't cause much friction at the squadron level, though, because most pilots knew that imperials were trustworthy pilots, and the complaints were almost never taken seriously.

[rammjaeger]

Contradictions and tough arguments were sometimes a real problem in the German Army. So a Saxon general refused to carry out the senseless attacks of Langemark. He was immediately replaced by a Prussian general who did not hesitade to waste the soldiers lifes. The loss of Saxon soldiers was overproportional high in WWI and seems to confirm the opinion that Prussian generals used the Saxons like the Brits the "Colonials". The leadership of the Saxon king was only nominal.

The Bavarian war ministry had repeatedly trouble with the Prussians because of insufficient deliveries of aircraft and equipment. The book "Die Königlich-Bayerische Fliegertruppe 1912-1919" reports a lot of examples.

[Rittm]

You know I even see those old rivalries here in the US with American Germans. The northern Germans will sometimes snub the southern Germans. My grandparents must have made an interesting combination. He was northern (Prussian) German and my grandmother was Swiss, which is south and not German.

You can see that behavior here today with Americans in general. The south is still fighting the Civil War, and the Easterners still think we out west are either fighting Indians or all into the Hollywood thing. Of course these are extreme and exaggerated examples that were more common attitudes about 20 years ago.

As far as WWI goes, I have vague impressions of people either not liking me or being unsure of me at first because of my heritage.

Rittm

In my experience, (which admittedly is not all that wide) German "domestic unity" still isnt consolidated today. When I was over there I stayed with Bavarians, they said they didn't like High Germans. And all the Germans I have spoken to on the subject say Bavarians aren't Germans at all. Is this a nation wide thing I wonder? Never healed since the Saxon-Prussian disagreements of WWI and earlier?

[Rittm]

The Bavarians were always pretty tight with the Habsburgs in Austria. The Wittlesbach and Habsburgs inter married a lot, so they had close ties, so I would be willing to guess that the negative attitude towards the Bavarians has to do with them being the last to join Germany as a country as opposed to being part of the Holy Roman Empire, which was generally led by the Habsburgs.

Rittm

[Ira_Silverman]

I can't comment on how serious provincialism was between the various districts of 1914-1918 Germany, but I will say, if a number of business trips there over the past few years mean anything, that there is verbal sparring based on place of birth.

Several times, while visiting the outskirts of Stuttgart, I had associates tell me to "Excuse so and so, He's Schwaben (Swabian)." But the best comment was from a German engineer (Bavarian), who told me in plain English, "A Prussian is just a Russian that's gotta P."

VBR,

Ira

[Rittm]

Cough! choke! splutter!

That is not true! Prussians are not anything like the Russians. At least they weren't when I was alive. But I won't hold that against Bavaria since I have a close friend who is Bavarian and if he can stand me, I can stand him.

Rittm

Rittm,

A Russian may feel insulted by the same reference.

Regards,

MDD

[Rittm]

Micheal,
The Russians can feel insulted all they want. They hate us Germans. Why do you think they took such delight in destroying East Germany with all that pollution? I'm scared to go back home and see what they have done to my beloved childhood stomping grounds.

Rittm