Why the Fascination with Luke?

Al: I note that Collishaw's six-victory day (6 July '17) involved only one credited as destroyed. The others were all out of control (admittedly in the same fight) but that's a lot different from Luke's five destroyed in one mission--and maybe he did it twice.
Having said that, I'd gladly pay to see a good Collishaw/Black Flight movie, too.

[Barrett]

The question has been raised as to whether Frank Luke was a hero, or even heroic.
The answer is yes.
Some years ago I wrote an editorial for a navy magazine, titled "Heroism 101." It was about the time of the OJ trial when some of us who know genuine heroes got really-really tired of the absurd phrase "sports hero." Ain't no such thing.
The reason is: unless the penalty for failure in an endeavor is death, dismemberment, or torture, the individual participating is not heroic and should be described as something else. OJ's biggest risk in his profession was not making the playoffs.
Not all heroes are admirable (Boyington said, "Show me a hero and I'll show you a bum.") Hermann Göring, nobody's favorite war hero, was nevertheless genuinely heroic. Some people I've known in my life were heroic once upon a time, then turned into back-stabbing, dishonorable SOBs. So you don't have to like or admire someone who's demonstrated high-risk heroism. I further submit that, media hype to the contrary, merely being taken hostage or even being dead is no indicator of heroism. The pity is that at the end of the 20th century, the previous concept of heroism has been so diluted as to render it virtually meaningless.

Jeni,
When are you going to wake up and smell what you're shoveling? "You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other poor dumb S.O.B. die for his country." G.S. Patton, Gen., U.S. Third Armored WWII.
I and most fighter pilots will agree, A dead fighter pilot is not a successful fighter pilot. The very best ones survived the war.
Check Six,
Jim

Jim Ace:
"I and most fighter pilots agree." Interesting statement. Care to name any of the fighter pilots who allegedly agree with you?
Second, sir, you owe Jeni an apology for your rudene tone. You "squids" seem to have problems along those lines.

G-8,
Robert L. Shaw, Naval F-14 pilot for 14 years and holds a masters degree in aeronautical engineering, and author of the book 'Fighter Combat, Tactics and Maneuvering'. As far as my being rude, I think not. However I will acknowledge that I am bluntly honest. Squid - You bet, and proud of it! BB stacker too while you're at it. IYOYAS

No apology is needed for calling somebody on something that is an opinion. I didn't use any foul language, nor resort to epithets. And while we're at it here G-man can you tell me what your definition of a good fighter pilot is? Is it one who dies in combat or survives to tell the tale?

Smoke that!
Jim

Joe ace: "Wake up & smell what you're shoveling" isn't rude?
"Most fighter pilots agree." You named one, without bothering to quote him specifically, and I seriously doubt that Cdr Shaw presumed to speak for "all" fighter guys. (As long as we're being nit-picky, you described him as a "naval F-14 pilot." What other kind of F-14 pilots are there?)

[Billy_Bishop]

Speaking of the Navy, I'm told it's very popular with the Gay crowd, they just love to hear the order..."All hands on deck!" (said with hand bent down at the wrist.)

P.S.
Just Kidding.

[Billy_Bishop]

1. Patton was CO of the 3rd ARMY, not the 3rd Armoured.

2. Funny, I don't remember mentioning Collishaw.

3. I think MOST fighter pilots will agree that the IDEAL is to return alive, with your plane, but that's not always possible. Considering the profession, you have to expect that not everyone is gonna come back alive all the time. The odds are simply against it.

4. While it can be argued that any pilot who survived a war was successful, if he did nothing to further the objective of his country, I'd argue that he wasn't as successful as the person who, while maybe not surviving, shot down more enemies, blew up more targets, and in general caused the other side a bigger headache.

VBR,

Al Lowe
"On the edge of destiny, you must test your strength."
- Billy Bishop, VC, DSO and Bar, MC, DFC etc., ad nauseum.

Gee-man the Air Farce has sent a couple of Pilots over on the exchange program to the Navy, and I believe that they've flown in F-14's, F/A-18's.
Nice to hear from ya though,
Jim

Frank Luke died serving his country as did René Dorme , Oswald Boelke and George Lanoe Hawker none of whom were their nations leading aces. ACTIONS!, not statistics or nationality are what make a Hero.