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1998 Closed threads from 1998 (read only)


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Old 18 October 1998, 01:32 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Why did the Germans switch to the more ordinary straight sided cross some time in 1918? Was this just a fashion statement or did somebody loose the stencil used for painting the Maltese crosses?

I can understand that the some U.S. pilots had difficulty to distinguish between the Japanese roundel and their own during the early years of WWII and that the Finns needed no prompting to get rid of their swastika like insignia, but I fail to see how a Maltese cross could be mistaken for any of the roundels used by the Allied pilots during the Great War.

BTW. Did the Russian pilots use something resembling the British, French and American roundels on their planes? (Some more red, white and blue)

Thanks to you all.
Vic.
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Old 18 October 1998, 06:25 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Vic:

The hard truth of the matter is that no one sees national markings on the opposing aircraft most of the time until combat is already joined. At any real distance, the Mark-I human eyeball is just not up to picking up such detail.

Most identification is made by a sillouette (sp?) image, which is why the identification flash cards of WWII were in black images. By the time one picks up the national markings of an opposing aircraft, if he has not id'd it as enemy, a fighter jock is probably on his way to being toasted.

The Maltese Cross gave way to the Balken Cross because it was much easier to paint upon a German aircraft (less manhours involved).
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Old 19 October 1998, 03:48 AM   #3 (permalink)
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The Russian air service used a roundel as national marking. The colours were blue, red and white (as in the national flag of the time), but the dimensions of the circles varied widely, and I have even seen examples with a fourth, very small, blue inner circle inside the white.
 
Old 19 October 1998, 11:55 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Shooter & Michael

Thanks for the info. You guys are real gurus.

Any idea how often mistaken id led to the downing of a friendly?

regards

Vic
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Old 19 October 1998, 04:00 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I've read a few funny reports by British pilots who upon spotting some approaching aircraft believed they were being joined by a flight of Tripehounds. Imagine their surprise when the triplanes opened fire on them!

Salute!
-Hermann
 
Old 20 October 1998, 08:02 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Firing on friendlies happened more frequently when the RFC and Aviation Militaire shared operational areas; pilots in the respective forces were less familiar with the silhouettes of their allies' aircraft. (This was less of a problem for the French, who made a practise of studying silhouettes -- something the RFC did not do.) During the air action surrounding 3rd Ypres in summer 1917, the RFC had to make firing on a French machine a court-marial offence, which suggests that it happened rather a lot. I believe that Nungesser once had to shoot down a Camel that persisted in attacking him; afterward, he added huge red-white-blue diagonal stripes to his upper wings in a (probably futile) attempt to reduce the possibility of mis-identification.
 
Old 20 October 1998, 10:57 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I asked this question a few months ago, and the upshot of answers seemed to be that:

(1) Straight crosses were a lot easier to paint
(2) The change roughly coincided with the 1918 German 'Michael' Offencive.

So perhaps the German brass hats had been thinking about the change for a while; and then in early '18, decided to order it in the hope that it would reduce friendly-fire incidents during the coming 'push'. I'm thinking here mainly of ground fire. In 1918 there were a lot more ground attack planes buzzing low overhead, and infantrymen would base their recognition not on silhouettes but on national markings. (A bit like the D-Day stripes applied in 1944.) Just an educated(?) guess though.
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Old 21 October 1998, 05:17 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Vigilant raises an interesting point. Ground forces unfamiliar with aircraft might well identify solely on national markings. At ranges under 500 meters, they would be able to see them at least.

Air defense forces seem to traditionally have difficulty identifying friendly from enemy aircraft. The only reason why US forces have had less of a problem with this is because US aircraft have often been the only ones in the sky, and STILL they have shot down friendlies by mistake.
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Old 21 October 1998, 03:56 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I have seen computer-generated images of modern European jets that are supposively "based" in Germany and these still have that classic Maltese Cross. Is this completely accurate or is someone making guesswork on markings?

-Eric
 
Old 21 October 1998, 07:15 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I think that the post-WWII Luftwaffe chose the Maltese cross to avoid any memory of the wartime organization.
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