Bavarians?

Someone please explain the Bavarians. There were Bavarian
units/squadrons? Were they really or originally Bavarian?
Was it just an administrative thing? Was it something the
Bavarian state insisted on? Was it worthwhile? Clearly many
aces were Bavarians but they didn't serve exclusively in
Bavarian units, so what gives?

The solution is relatively easy: Bavaria, just like Wurtemberg, had its own army.

The equipment and organization form was standardized in Germany, and of course the Emperor had the supreme command, but other than this the bavarian army was rather independent in peace times (a problem that still existed in 1923 and was part of the background for the beerhall-putch).
In war, this independence proofed a liability, but a full integration never took place.

The whole story comes from the founding of the German Reich, when the independent king of Bavaria made this a precondition. Other states usually had their own units, too, but where fully integrated into the German army.

regards

Axel

[rammjaeger]

Don't forget the Saxon Kingdom! You could find Jastas named Royal Prussian Jagdstaffel, Royal Bavarian Jagdstaffel, Royal Wuerttemberg Jagdstaffel or Royal Saxon Jagdstaffel. I believe the squadrons were mixed at least during the end of the war, because I have heard a Bavarian Jasta leader got trouble with his Prussian superiors and was replaced. In German history was allways a strong contradiction between Bavarians/Saxonians and Prussians. You will find more info in the book The Jasta Pilots of Franks, Bailey and Duiven.

[rammjaeger]

Saxon Jastas: Jasta 21,22,24,40,44,54,72.
Bavarian Jastas: Jasta 16,32,34,35,76-80.
Wuerttemberg Jastas: Jasta 28,47,64,84.
The other Jastas were Prussian Jastas.

Bavaria was one of the stronger kingdoms incorporated into the German reich in 1871. As such it not only had its own army, it had an industrial infrastructure that was independent of Prussia. The Pfalz company was able to sell aircraft to the Bavarian part of the German air service because Pfalz was Bavarian. (See, for example, the Pfalz
E-I, a monoplane very similar to the Fokker.)

[Reinout]

Nice one, this thread on Bavaria.

The Bavarians had their own units and at some point during the war there was a reorganisation. Only Bavarians could lead Bavarian units and vice versa, though Prussia was less strict in enforcing this rule. On the whole, they would not allow Bavarians to lead their units, but on occasion a man from Sachsen or Wurttemberg might be found leading a Prussian unit. This is due to the fact that Bavaria was very strict in enforcing this rule and because of the endless discussions between the Prussian and Bavarian militaries about decorations and other stuff. There seems to have been less friction between Prussia and the other two kingdoms. I have a case (don't remember the name right now - I'll try to look it up)in which a Prussian was leading a unit that was recently designated to become a Bavarian unit (in the beginning it was a paper rule, but it soon becam a reorganisation of personnel) and so he would have to go, making room for a Bavarian pilot. Not all Bavarians flew in Bavarian units after this reorganisation. Max Ritter von Muller went back to Jasta Boelcke at the end of 1917. When Walter von Bulow-Bothkamp was killed on January the 6th 1918, Muller was designated the leader of the unit in the air, while overall command would go to a Prussian. We couldn't have a Bavarian lead the Royal Prussian Jagdstaffel Boelcke, now could we!? Muller was killed on the 9th, so he didn't have much joy of his partail leadership of Jasta Boelcke. Ernst Udet was a Bavarian, but because his rebuttal by the Bavarian airforce (which it had before the war), he flew for Prussian units during his career.

I'll look up the man whose command was superceded by a Bavarian because he was not a Sohn des Bayrischer Konigreich! Was that corect German?

ein Sohn des Bayrischen Koenigreichs is right, but your try was quite good.

[Reinout]

In school (what Americans would call high school) I always had bad grades in German grammar. I could read very well. Speaking it was more difficult and listening to it was about the same. On the whole I had good grades but whenever it comes to accusatives I have to guess what conjugations are correct. As you have seen my best guess just isn't good enough!

Kind regards,

Reinout

Probably the most famous example was Eduard Ritter von Schliech who was removed from the command of Prussian Jasta 21 and placed in command of Jasta 32b.

[Reinout]

I've looked it up and the reorganisation in which Bavarians were transferred to all-Bavarian outfits and replaced by Prussians occurred around October 1917. Von Schleich himself was replaced by Oskar Freiherr von Boenigk on October 21st 1917.

Kind regards,

Reinout