Re: Bishop vs. Richthofen

[Reinout]

What is this? Is there a malfunction or a joke I'm not on about?

This must be a what if scenario. Ok. I'll play along. I think it depends on who was coming out of the sun and who had altitude. And who had their coffee that morning. Did Richthofen ever fly alone? I think he did but it was rare. He was used to fighting with his Jasta. Bishop was used to flying solo. That may have been an advantage for Bishop. One of Richthoffens tactics was to circle above the fray and pick the prey that suited him. In this case the Baron wouldn't have a choice. But according to this canadian documentary MvR would have had engine trouble and crashed while still 20 miles away from Bishop who would return to his aerodrome and claim that he killed him. Right al? hehe.

I think Chris is refering to the description of dogfight between Bishop and the Baron as described in "They Fought for the Sky'. Did this event occur? Personally I doubt it.

[Billy_Bishop]

Vickers: Actually, Bishop would have fired a burst at on of MvR's wing men, who would have panicked and gone into a "fake" spin, which Bishop would have claimed as OOC.

Mark: It's actually not that unlikely that they may have crossed paths. But I too have my doubts that they ever tangled. If they had, I'm almost sure that one of them would have ended up dead, perhaps earlier than they should have.

Regards,

Al Lowe 'Honourary Canadian Citizen'
"On the edge of destiny, you must test your strength. "
-- Billy Bishop

Where were they stationed in respect to one another? How far did jasta's and squadrons generally roam. And who claimed that they actually got into a scrap?

I believe the story was presented from Bishop's point of view by Quentin Reynolds. As the story goes, Bishop apparently recognized his adversary's red plane. I think Bishop was alone and von Richthofen left a few others of his squadron to engage the lone Nieuport. From what I remember reading, Bishop is "quoted" to have said about Richthofen's opening burst: "best shooting I have ever seen." After Bishop gained an upper hand, the Baron broke off the engagement and dove away. What is Reynold's source for this story? Its been a long time, but from what I recall, he never says. Is this engagement referred to in any other sources? -- Ive never seen it elsewhere which makes me want to discount it.

Isn't the testimony about an encounter with MvR from "Winged Warfare," Bishop's autobiography written halfway through his flying career? I'm pretty sure that's where I read it. Bishop was very admiring of MvR's flying and shooting, scoring hits all around (and inside!) his cockpit. Bishop claims to have gotten off a few rounds himself in the encounter. I can't recall who broke the engagement.

*Both adversaries out of amunition, they fly alongside one another, salute, and return home. Just kidding *

I've talked briefly with Arthur Bishop, Billy's son and biographer, who suggested that "Winged Warfare" was subject to a lot of wartime censorship, having a lot of juicy "classified" information removed or altered.

I now leave the soapbox (or grassy knoll) for Bishop character assassins.

I remain,
RK

[Richard_Schrader]

You must remember that Reynolds would never let the truth get in the way of a good Richthofen bashing. Both Richthofen and Bishop were good combat pilots, and it's not surprising that they failed to defeat one another.
I read all the time how Richthofen was not a good pilot, but a great shot. He admitted himself that he had 10 victories
before he "really knew how to fly." Over time he became a very skilled pilot, who could get the most out of the planes he flew.

The best duel the sky of Europe has ever seen, Blackadder and Baldrick vs Richtoffen.

Kit

Actually my initial post somehow dissapeared. I had written about the account I read of the fight between MvR and Bishop in Stephen Longstreet's book "The Canvas Falcons". According to a citation taken from Bishop's own account, Bishop took many shots at MvR and had him dead in his sights when his guns jammed. Bishop stated that he saw bullets impact on MvR's wing surfaces and that MvR decided to high tail it out of the scrap. I was just wondering if MvR ever confirmed this engagement or knew who he was fighting against that day. Did he admit being damaged by Bishop?

Chris