Collishaw autobiography

[Ira_Silverman]

I believe the Englishman (certainly NOT English gentleman) that Barrett refers to is T.B.A. Graves, who ran a business called MvR Publications, that consisted of selling spiral-bound copies of the combat reports of notable aces. Later, when it was discovered that the originals were stolen from the Public Records Office, an APB was circulated by Cross and Cockade in Great Britain, and The League of WW1 Aviation Historians here in the states, and eventualy he was apprehended. Hopefully the reports were returned to the PRO.

I don't have an issue with buying or selling combat reports, if they were acquired legitimately. However, under no conditions can I condone the bartering of stolen merchandise, especially when that merchandise is unique and made available for the use of the general public, especially we amateur historians. We are all injured when that material is no longer available to us.

For what its worth, Graves did sell copies of sets of both Bishop's and Collishaws combat reports. I have a copy of the Collishaw set ( I bought it before I learned the full story), and will review it to see if it sheds light on the Almenroeder situation.

By the way, in searching for WW1 aviation titles, very definitely try your local Used and Rare Bookseller. You never know what you'll find, and don't give up. The stocks usually change on a weekly or monthly basis, and its easy to build a library at a very reasonable cost.

Regards,

Ira

[Darryl]

Hi Melinda,
I too am sceptical of 80 year old newly discovered evidence, but I must point out that from my references it appears that it was not the RNAS that denied the claim, Collishaw himself never *claimed* it. Here the happening differs from his Balloon problem.

regards

Darryl

[Billy_Bishop]

According to the list in "Above The Trenches", none of Collishaw's 60 victories include any balloons.

Further, the authors make a statement that I find very applicable.

"It is interesting to note that the scores of the four top scoring pilots of the war have all given similar difficulties with post war compilation."

Aside from the list in Above the Trenches, I've found at least 3 other lists for Bishop, only TWO of which agree, and neither of those is in ATT.

Oh well, I knew this was gonna be difficult when I started. I guess this is the fun part.

Regards,

Al Lowe 'Honourary Canadian Citizen'
"On the edge of destiny, you must test your strength. "
- Billy Bishop

[Reinout]

Last night I checked Neal O'Connor's book for his view on Allmenroders death. The time of death is between 8 and 10 a.m. I have also made an error with the date. It was the 27th of June 1917, not the 30th of June. Neal states that Collishaw is often listed as the victor. That does not mean that he was given official credit. The trouble is that I can only use e-mail/internet at the university, so I usually don't have my books with me and therefore I have to go from memory.
I checked out the eye-witness report again. It was published in 1938, not 1937. Since I don't have my books with me, I cannot give you the name and outfit of the witness (which is listed) right now. Maybe tomorrow or next week I'll bring my books.
That doesn't change the questions at hand: was Collishaw the victor? And, was he given credit for it?

Kind regards,

Reinout

Thanks for the info guys. I really enjoy reading these posts. It's not often you find a board with so many well-read folks on it!
Hmm. If Collie wasn't himself sure whether he shot down Allmenroeder, would he have claimed it anyway? It seems not. But, what if he really had, and never knew for sure? Would he still have been credited with the kill?
I mean, would someone (at the time this happened) have gone to the trouble of finding out who may have shot down a certain aircraft, if nobody claimed it?
I'm interested to know too, if any other pilot or artillery unit claimed to have shot down Allmenroeder.
)
Melinda

How were the deaths of the aces portrayed in the newspapers of the time. Was it accurate info or was it just sympathetic sappy stuff. If the German combat reports were lost in the chaotic era following the war (or wars (ww2)) maybe the german press had a copy of the accurate info and printed it around the time of his death with accuracy. I'm sure copies of obituaries of the original obituaries still exsist. If they all have the same information they are probably accurate (unless they had the same erroneous source). If you have old German newspapers on microfeash (sp?) somewhere that would be a great source of historically accurate info (or historically inaccurate propaganda). Did the Germans have something akin to "stars & stripes"? A military newspaper? I can't see why any newspaper would bother to lie about time of death. You could prove it once and for all.

[Barrett]

Melinda, Vickers, et al:

A good source of out-of-print WW I books is Paul Gaudette Books in Tucson, AZ. When I was last there (April) I looked in The Back Room and saw multiple copies of several memoirs, though I don't remember Collishaw's. Paul used to swap straight across for duplicates in our library at the Champlin Fighter Museum, and I know him to be a certified good guy. He sends out a pamphlet to regular customers a couple times a year, so he's worth getting on the list.

[Ira_Silverman]

Norman Franks, in "Above the Lines," sates that Almenroeder was mortally wounded at 9:45 AM on 27 June 1917. In Collishaw's bio, "Air Command," he sets the time of his 27 June patrol at 17:20 (5:20 PM) that afternoon. There is a clear inconsistency here. It would appear to me that Almenroeder was brought down by ground fire, or possibly a Sopwith triplane other than Collishaw's.

Having done business with Paul Gaudette for some 15 years now, I can vouch for what Barrett said. He has a huge stock, competitive pricing, and prompt delivery. All I can add is to support your local bookseller wherever possible. They're a dying breed in this era of Mega-Stores (and no, I'm not in the new or used bookselling business).

If you do get details of the time of Collishaw's claim and Allmenroeder's death,don't forget that there would have to be a one-hour difference between German and Allied time.Cheers.Mukund.