Collishaw autobiography

Looks like there are a lot of Canadians here. Does anyone happen to have a copy of "Air Command", Collishaw's autobiography? I have been looking for it for about 3 years now. An online service found a copy for me about 4 months ago, but someone else snapped it up before I could order it!
So many of these WW1 books are out of print. Don't these publishers know how we NEED them?!?
Thanx,
Melinda

[Billy_Bishop]

"Looks like there are a lot of Canadians here"

And at least one "Honourary Canadian".

However, I'm sad to say that I've never come across Collishaw's book. And trying to find some of these older books is next to impossible. I went into a Crown book store today and I could find three full racks on computers. Several racks on gardening, art, photography, "Gay/Alternate Lifestyles" One rack had Bibles on it. I didn't know there were so many different versions. King James Version, New World translation, and others I've forgotten. There was maybe a handful of books on WWI. WWII at least had it's own section, WWI was tossed in with the rest of world history.

Guess I'll have to go to the library.

Al Lowe 'Honourary Canadian Citizen'
"On the edge of destiny, you must test your strength. "
- Billy Bishop


Al Lowe 'Honourary Canadian Citizen'
"On the edge of destiny, you must test your strength. "
-Billy Bishop

[Reinout]

I cannot help you with "Air Command" but if you ever find a copy perhaps you can shed some light on the 30th of June 1917. Allmenroder was shot down and killed by ground fire in the morning of that day, after chasing an Allied plane over the lines. Collishaw, in the evening, fired shots from extremely long range at an Albatros. I don't know if he saw it go down, I also do not know if he claimed the kill. But it seems that Collishaw was credited with the death of Karl Allmenroder. Was it the Allied command that granted Collishaw the kill because they knew who was flying the red Albatros that had been shot down that day? Like in Immelmann's case? There are still people who believe that Collishaw shot down Allmenroder in personal combat a few days after Allmenroder had vanquished one of the Black Flight (Nash if I remember correctly), out of vengeance. Once I read a mag that made it look like good winning out over evil! Guess who was portrayed as evil!
Perhaps you know more.

Kind regards,

Reinout

[Darryl]

Collishaw shot at Allmenroder that morning just before he crashed. Collishaw fired from a distance of 700-800 yards and about 100 rounds. He observed the aircraft turn and dive. He did not claim the victory and only found out it was Allmenroder after the war. Recently discovered eyewitness evidence (quoted in The Red Baron Combat Wing by Killduff) suggests that the turn was made under control. The Archie then started firing and the aircraft fell out of control. Collishaw was never credited with the victory to my knowledge

regards

Darryl

I had a book with some excerpts from "Air Command" which is what got me interested...I do believe Collishaw said that he fired at Allmenroeder not really expecting to hit him, but he did hit and Allmenroeder went down. I have also heard about the "vengeance" motive, but I think it was more of a lucky coincidence for Collishaw. He was an incredibly lucky guy. )

Hmm...with all due respect, I must say I'm a bit leery of recently discovered eyewitness reports. Seems like they're a favorite of revisionist historians, the kind who want to gain fame and fortune by trashing people we've always considered heroes. Not that I think it would happen in Collishaw's case, since he doesn't seem to be famous enough to be a good target. (Unlike Billy Bishop )
I'm not surprised that Collie didn't get credit for the kill, he also shot down 8 balloons which the RNAS never added to his combat total. It should be 68 confirmed kills not 60.
If I ever get this book I think I will publish it online so that EVERYBODY can read it. good idea, no?

[Billy_Bishop]

If you mean to publish his victory list, by all means, do so. I'll have to look at my copy of Above the Trenches to see if they have any of his balloons listed. I wouldn't be surprised if they have "some" but not all of the 8 that Collishaw claimed. It's happened before.

p.s. if some of my messages have mistakes, like the last one where I had my signature block twice, you'll have to pardon me, I'm trying to use my mouse with my right hand instead of my left. I'm a left-hand mouser normally, but I've got tendonitis in my left hand which is affecting three out of four fingers, including my index finger. So, you might see these mistakes from time to time, until I get used to using my right hand to control the mouse.

Al Lowe 'Honourary Canadian Citizen'
"On the edge of destiny, you must test your strength. "
-- Billy Bishop

[Reinout]

Well it looks like the controversy hasn't ended.
The views are:
-some of you think he shot down Allmenroder and got credit for it
-some think he shot down Allmenroder but did not get credit for it
-some of you think Allmenroder was hit by Collishaw but killed by ground fire
-I think he did not shoot down Allmenroder

Why do I think that? In your replies nobody makes any mention of the time of the event. Neal O'Connor has made a bit of an investigation it seems. This is what he made of it. Collishaw claimed to have shot at a plane in the EVENING, according to his own report. Allmenroder was killed in the MORNING around 10 o'clock (I'll look up the time more accurately). Collishaw was credited with the victory it seems, again according to O'Connor. In the same book (The Aviation Awards of Imperial Germany and the men who earned them - Volume II: the kingdom of Prussia) in an appendix he gives a translation of an article that appeared in a 1937 magazine in Germany. It was some kind of commemorative article, the publishing date being 30th of June 1937. An eye-witness reports on how he saw Allmenroders red Albatros and his staffel chase away Allied fighters bent on strafing the infantry. The Albatros was seen to continue the pursuit for a long time before it returned. When he was near the lines, he was hit by ground fire and crashed.
This is no eye-witness report of recent birth. On the other hand people might say that it appeared in an era of nazi-propaganda. Allmenroders death early in the morning and Collishaws own report of an action late that day is enough for me to deduce that Allmenroder could only have been shot down by ground fire. The eye-witness only seems to corroborate that view.
If Collishaw only learnt about Allmenroders identity after the war, I think we can dispense the "vengeance" story.
The things that would settle the matter are:
-Collishaws combat report of the 30th June 1917, most important of all the time of his action
-the exact time of death of Karl Allmenroder

Crossreferencing these would show the likeliness of Collishaw being the victor over Allmenroder.
There is still the matter of the credit. Did he get it or not? I think he did but I have no proof other than O'Connor's statement. I wonder what replies I get on this one...

Kind regards,

Reinout combat reports Melinda ww1fighterpilot@hotmail.com 904776996 0 0 I wonder if the combat report even exists, after all these years, or if it may have been published somewhere. I used to know a dealer who was selling WWI combat reports. Maybe I'll write him and ask if he knows about it. It's probably a long, long shot though.

Melinda

[Barrett]

If the dealer Melinda refers to is the one who was hawking WW I and II combat reports on the internet, he's no longer in business. As soon as I saw that web site I notified two friends who are professional researchers, here and in the UK. They in turn notified The Authorities who evidently already knew of the situation. The "dealer" was found guilty of stealing government documents and, though he had a basement full of signed combat reports, he wasn't even prosecuted. He should have gone to prison doing hard time for life. I'm sorry, folks, but archives and libraries are the basis of civilization; those who steal or deface them (tearing out pages or snipping signatures) are guilty of cultural barbarism and should NOT be pitied, but hammered--HARD. Of course, in this kinder-gentler era there's no such thing as accountability, except for the innocent.

BTW: if anybody missed Rush's hysterically funny version of "Ballad of the Green Berets" on 2 September, call or e-mail him demanding a repeat. It's PRICELESS.

Hmm. There seems to be more than one, since the guy I am talking about is American. I agree 100% that these papers should be in a museum where everyone can access them, and not being hawked as souvenirs. However, I don't think that these people will be prosecuted and all the papers recovered, so I'm going to ask him anyway. I don't like him or what he does for a living, but my need to know is greater than my distaste, in this situation.
Just so you guys know that I don't condone selling combat reports. I apologize if I gave you all the wrong idea.

Melinda