Ace of the Millennium

[Barrett]

Malan, a South African, was a very well regarded RAF fighter leader. Never heard the tale about using a "lame duck" as a live target for his cubs but sorta doubt it--the bomber's friends undoubtedly had a voice in the matter. After the war I believe he was involved in the anti-apartheid movement but died in 1963.

[cam]

On Thatch, the Australian pilots of 3 Sqn RAAF came up independantly with the "Fluid Pairs" arrangement in North Africa when their P40's were getting knocked around by the Me109's which were superior. The fluid pairs arrangement was to to give a tactical advantage and counter the flight superiority of the Me109. In the same way the Wildcats needed a tactical advantage to counter the Zero's flight superiority.

Though the fluid pairs didnt spread through the USN or USMC, and the RAAF wasnt large enough for the arrangment to become a world standard, it is still notable. ( The RAAF still was the worlds fourth largest active air force immediately after the surrender of Japan )

Many of the 3 Sqn RAAF pilots came back to fly with the RAAF in the South Pacific. Even though the JN and JAF had pretty much left that theatre by then.



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[Vin]

The no 2 Ace of the Millenium is some bloke who scored 6 victories and devised a defensive manoeuvre which was not only not widely adopted but had been used already! Is this a joke ?


Vin

[cam]

>defensive manoeuvre which was not only
>not widely adopted but had been used already!

oops didnt mean 3 Sqn were first, just that in similar cirumstances around the same time they came up with a similar system to counter superior aircraft.

I think all good air fighters would resort to a system that gives some form of tactical advantage that compensates for the problems of having to do combat in inferior aircraft.

Incidentally while the USN and USMC were racking up huge scores in the central Pacific, 3 Sqn RAAF was the leading scoring allied squadron in North Africa. Kind of like following 1 Sqn AFC's footsteps.



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An ace of the Millennium list that does not include René Fonck or Hans Jochiam Marsille? Is this a conspiracy? And to leave off Hans Ulrich Rudel is blasphemy. And, I think you hurt Suburo Sakia's feelings. After all, flying back to base through almost 700 miles of Allied airspace, with one eye blown out, a severely screwed up A6M2, fighting unconsciousness the entire way, must count for something. I guess Nowotny, Galland, O'Hare, Nichizawa, Backhorn, Coppens, Berthold, Gentile, Johnson, and Boyington are sh*t out of luck. Alas...To each his own.

Semper Fi
Nick Vitale
Ssgt Of Infantry
USMC

[Barrett]

Howdy Sgt Nick: Remember the criteria, innovation, leadership & lasting influence. I've worked with both Dolfo Galland and Saburo Sakai and have nothing but respect for them--especially Galland, who stood up to Goering AND Hitler on behalf of his troops; far more of a leader than anybody in the current or recent US armed forces. (Sakai's epic flight was "only" 500 nautical miles, but one mission doesn't make the millennium ace, nor does a 100-plus score.) On the other hand, Boelcke and Thach laid the basis for doctrine and tactics that remain valid today--only Moelders comes close.
Incidentally, Marine Ace of the Millennium: Marion Carl, also the greatest naval aviator ever. Joe Foss seconds the nomination.

[Reinout]

Barrett,

From what I've gathered from the persons who flew with the Gallands, they agreed that while Wutz was the better fighter pilot, Dolfo was th better combat leader - in fact the best combat leader they had. As General der Jäger, Dolfo was at the heart of German air developments and while he certainly didn't think of everything himself, he supervised or directed or was at least involved in many important developments that have had some effect in aviation. And after the war, he and a few others (Baumbach) organised the Argentinian air force. When the Falklands War erupted, the Argentinians still relied on the tactics and doctrine as laid down by Galland - and to some good effect I've heard. Add that to his record as a fighter pilot (during the final stage of which he was also heavily involved in developing jet tactics, like firing rockets etc.) I think I would have to nominate him for a high position.

My top 5 aces would at this moment be:
1) Boelcke
2) Galland
3) MvR
4) Marseille
5) Hartmann

Yep, all Germans: I don't know enough Allied ones to make a decent verdict! Besides, I doubt many will question my choices here.

Kind regards,

Reinout

I now remember the term Thatch weave. So thats the origin. Thanks for the info. Seems to be the correct choice

hooee... Surprise! No Canadians mentioned.

Well According to Barrett criteria I should think Raymond Collishaw would be in TOP 10. I would place him #3.

Leader of "the Black Flight" in WWI Scoring I think 60 victories(many are not OOC). Also fought the commies after the war. In WWII he was the Allied "Desert Fox" using 1 Hurricane to fool the Germans into thinking he had 3 Squadrons of them.

[Barrett]

For a combatant's view of Collishaw's role as CinC Desert Air Force, read "Messerschmitt Roulette" by W/C Geoffrey Morley-Mower, DFC, AFC. "M-M" flew Hurricanes in the same airspace as Heinz-Joachim Marseille and takes a decidedly unglamorous approach to the subject.