American planes

19 December 1999, 05:42 PM

I just finished reading on the "Jenny" and I was wondering if America produced any other aircraft that saw any action during the war? I seem to remember an American bomber (I think it was an MB-2)but I don't know if it was actually used during the war or not. Thanks, Andy

21 December 1999, 10:34 AM

The Jenny was in fact a British design commisioned by Curtis much like the P-51 was commisioned by the British during WW2. The designer (I forget his name,possibly Geoffrey de Havilland)had previously done the DH-2. America also churned out an amazing no. of another British design, the DH-4, some which came back after the war and were conv into metal-fuselaged mail-hacks by Boeing. Eberhardt in NY built a short run of SE5s referred to as SE5e. Rumour has it that some of these did also have a metalized fuselage. Any further info about this would be appreciated. All in all, I think the Thomas Morse was the only truly American a/c during the Great War, but I'm glad to see that you are still buying SOME British designs for both your civil and mil needs (Harrier jumpjet, Goshawk advanced trainer, and so on!)VBR Maxwell

21 December 1999, 10:37 AM

Sorry, I must be getting tired. Your q was for a/c that saw battle, and no I don't think the Thomas Morse scout did see action apart from possibly as an advanced trainer. But there are chaps on the Forum that can fill you in on that!

leo · 21 December 1999, 01:49 PM

One of the problems which prevented the US from building planes to be used in the war was a shortage of experience and also engines. We did build the 400hP Liberty 12 which was used in several Allied planes, mostl DH4&9, but the failure of the 300 HP Liberty 8 caused problems. Union Switch and Signal built some Rotaries which ended up in the Morse and for export, but this engine seems to have lacked the power to provide the Morse and other designs with adequate power. As far as experience in building indiginous combat designs, we just did not have it.

stephen · 22 December 1999, 01:06 AM

Had the war continued for another 6-12 months, you would have seen incredible numbers of new SPAD XIII's and SE 5a's being churned out from the USA. Sad that we were so unprepared as to have to rely on European designs, but good that we had the economic muscle to turn the tide. The sheer number of planes that the USA was prepared to produce would truly have "darkened the skies" had we had a few more months, but we were caught flat footed like a bunch of idiots instead of being ready for what we knew was coming.

Same thing in WWII... the USA did not produce jets or secret super weapons like the Germans. However, we produced well-designed, reliable, proven weapons like the P 51 and P47... and we were able to turn them out by the zillion. We gambled on proven technology in numbers... Germany gambled on misused high tech experiments by the handful.

We win.

leo · 22 December 1999, 02:29 AM

I have seen claims that we could blacken the sky with aircraft had the war lasted longer. However, the only thing I could find on plans for the SE5 was that Curtis was plannng on building 1,000 of them. And, I suppose if they filled that order they could have built more. I couldn't find anything about plans for the SPAD XIII except that the US had ordered 6,000 from the French. I am not doubting anything you say, and of course the USA was a winner, but I wonder who and where all these planes were to be built.

leo

wingstrutdotcom · 22 December 1999, 08:59 AM

The Jenny did not see "combat" in Europe. However, it was the first to be used in "combat" by the USAS.......in 1916 the planes were used in the Punitive Expidition to chase Pancho Villia into Mexico. The Martin bomber you refer to was not in WWI. I am not sure of its first test flight date. However, there were plans and production started on the HP 0/400 in the US to fullfill long term expansion plans of USAS in Europe to include the HP in long range bombing units. About 100 HP 0/400s were built in the US by Standard Aircraft Co. I understand a few were actually shipped to England before the end of the war but none ever saw combat. The largest bomber type employed by USAS was the Caproni; next Bre 14s, DH4 and DH9.

I have a listing up on my site for all USAS units reaching combat front line service before end of war:

http://members.xoom.com/_XOOM/wingstrut/USAS.htm

leo · 22 December 1999, 02:48 PM

Does anyone know whether there was an attempt tto build Caproni bombers in the US? Did the Liberty 12 400HP find its way into any of the Capronis? I seem to recall that there were some built with the Liberty, but am not sure where.

Barrett · 22 December 1999, 07:33 PM

Avast, you landlubbers! Don't forget that naval aviation was the first of the US armed forces in Yurp during The Great War, and flew a variety of aircraft on real, no-kidding combat missions. Additionally (in fact, previously) the Curtiss series of flying boats was used by the RNAS, most notably the impressive Large Americas.

stephen · 23 December 1999, 12:35 AM

Leo, I'd be surprised if you could find any reference to tens of thousands of airplane orders in the USA. We'd spent most of our time purchasing planes instead of making plans to build them. My comments were referring to the USA's economic capacity for warmaking, not any specific number of orders submitted. We had chosen the SPAD XIII for mass production, though, you know.