Missing Aerial Photos

[stephen]

Where are all the millions of aerial photos taken in WWI? Especially by the Allies, who were unchallenged in the air by the summer of '18. There are several things that I'd like to look for if I could track down the photos themselves... the wreck of Arthur Lee's Camel west of Cambrai in Nov of '17, Luke's SPAD at Murvaux, and even the Holy Grail itself, MvR's Tripe on the Somme.

C'mon... the whole blasted front was canvassed by millions of photos. Many of those photos would not have caught anyone's eye at the time, but they could solve alot of mysteries now and be of tremendous interest in locating crash sites, etc. The photography was amazingly good back then. We just need to find the photos. London's PRO? DC's Library of Congress? Any ideas?

[leo]

I don't know what happened tp the pictures, but I wouldn't go so far to say that the Allies were unchallenged in the air in the Summer of 1918. The Germans were outnumbered by the Americans, French and Brits, but put a reasonable account of themselves in that time frame.

I have no idea on the photos of WWI, but I have heared from someone who was personally responsible for handling tons (literally) of WWII-aerial photos. He needed several weeks to burn them all, beside other classified information (though in the US)

I do fear that the unwanted material of WWI went the same way :-(

I tend to agree with Stephen ... in my opinion the allies were pretty much unchallenged in the air in the summer of 1918, at least with respect to the real work (photography, arty obs, etc). However, that's just an opinion. There may be a way to get actual data to support or refute it ... does anyone know what portion of German kills were allied seaters for different timeframes? Just sampling a few aces may be sufficient (but I don't have the necessary resources). MvR et al preyed on allied 2 seaters early on, evidenced by high numbers of 2 seater kills. This tells me that the allied air superiority at that time was not sufficient to allow protection of the working machines. But how did the ratio of two seat kills to total kills change over time? Not a perfect measure, but may be interesting.

Graham

[leo]

I took a look at the Jasta Chronicles from the Summer months of 1918. Sometimes the planes are not completely identified, but it would appear there were an awful lot of unchallenged allied losses. The ratio appears to be about 3 to 1. That is, if the Chronicles are to be belived.

[stephen]

Leo is right in the sense that the Germans certainly gave a good account of themselves considering their numbers. But I'm not talking about a kill ratio; you can have a great kill ratio and still lose a war (Germany did it twice). I'm talking about the overwhelming superiority of men, machines, fuel, equipment, etc., which was all running desperately short in Germany by this time. In that sense, the Allies were certainly unchallenged, making total mapping of the entire western front quite easy. The best the Germans could hope for was regional supremacy for short periods when they concentrated all their best units, still suffering heavy losses.

I think we'd all agree that the Huns performed brilliantly given their circumstances... that's just not what I was referring to.

I hate to think that all those photos simply disappeared off the face of the earth. That's as heartbreaking as all those photos of the bonfires of DVII's and DH4's! Doesn't anyone have anything else?

[leo]

During our Civil War there were hundreds of thousands of photos taken on glass plates. They were sold to greenhouses to use as panes in their windows. Eventually the sun bleached them out.
Obviously someone thought they had little value. What a shame!

Some of these photos have survived.
In A.E.Ferko's booklet 'Richthofen' for Albatros
Productions is a photo taken 2 hours after MvRs
plane crashed and only a mile or so away. It also shows a Jasta 6 triplane flying close to the ground maybe searching for his lost commander.
One wonders what other photos that recon plane took that day?
No credit is given for the photo ... maybe Mr. Ferko's private collection?

Cliff

[stevedrew]

Steve,
You seem to have opened a can of worms by mentioning the words "Aerial Superiority". Ha Ha! Happens all the time. No-one wanted to answer your question, just to shoot you down in flames for your comment! Perhaps you should choose your words more carefully next time! I can assist you. You mentioned PRO, and DC, try Australian War Memorial - http://www.awm -
Databases - photographs - Then type in "aerial photograph" and select World War 1. I'm afraid you may have to wade through a pile of photos to find what you are looking for, but this is fun, as there are small thumbnail pictures so that you can get a rough idea of the image that is before you. I think there is absolutely zero chance of finding your holy grail. If an aerial photo was taken and identified the wreckage of the Baron's Dreidecker, don't you think it would have been on every front page in the world in a week and henceforth famous? Good luck, good searching.
Steve Drew

[Scotty]

Greetings

There is a German pilot photo album on e-bay for sale that has some wonderful photos that you can view.

There are about 90 or so that you can see up close. pilots (many are autographed!) planes, wrecks and group photos.... item number is #217295642.. (I wish I could buy it myself!!)

Enjoy!!
Scotty