British pilot reported in Daily Mail

[rammjaeger]

Hi All,

I have seen two German sources of WWI quotating the report of a British Lieutenant in the Daily Mail 1914. He reported the following:

His first flight was near Maubeuge. He came under friendly fire of French troops and made a forced landing because of a hit in the tank.
The pilot reported about the ill-fated aircraft type which he was flying. 4 aircraft of this type were available. The 1st was going down near Amiens and crashed. Pilot and observer dead.
The 2nd was shot down between Amien and Maubeuge. The 3rd (his own) broke off during landing. The 4th aircraft was found burned, the crew missing. A war reporter (who was captured for a while by the Germans) said he had seen a grave of the British pilot in Enghien north of Mons. (That fits to a note about a downed British aircraft in August 1914 in the 3rd Sonderband. Another British aircraft was reported shot down on 15.August near Village Arsbeck, wounded and captured.)

I would like to know more details about the mentioned losses (kind of aircraft, names of the fliers, dates ...)!

Thanks in advance.

Hannes

[Soderbaum]

Hi Hannes
I am not the man to answer these question. But I take a chance for a guess about the "bad" type of british aircraft..
My guess is RE 1...!
The reason for this guess is a note in the book by Trevor Henshaw( TSTB) that stated that this type was off strength by the end of August 1914.

I hope someone else has the answer or a guess...

VBR
Gunnar

[rammjaeger]

Thank you, Gunnar!

That is already a good hint.

Hannes

[Soderbaum]

Hi Hannes
very interesting info given by you..The only problem is that it fits rather bad with british losses given in TSTB.
So you must at least two conslusions. The report in Daily Mail is uncorrect(partly) or the British losses given in TSTB is uncorrect.
Let us make the assumption that the Daily Mail report is correct and the four losses given there is in chronilogical order...
following..

Gunnar

[Soderbaum]

The loss of an an RE 1 serial 608? flown by Lt C Gordon-Bell was reported by Trevor on 25 Aug 1914.
He was from Aircraft Park flying for 2sq and was reported hit by bullet and forced to land near Mons where the aircraft chrashed.
Trevor says that this incident could have occurred
on 23 Aug 1914 also..
This fits your intro and third incident rather good..?

VBR
Gunnar

[Soderbaum]

Hi
2Lt EWC Perry KIC and 2AM. H Parfitt KIC from 3 sq were reported to stall on 16 Aug 1914 when taking off. They chrashed near Amiens.
But the aircraft is given as BE 8 625.
Trevor stated that this was the FIRST british loss in active service on the front.
If that is true the 3rd Sonderband must be wrong about the british aircraft on 15 Aug 1914 near village Arsbeck. But this seems like a clear victory because the 3 SB claimed that the british crew were wounded and taken POWs...?
The BE 8 incident otherwise fits the 1st incident loss except aircraft type.

VBR
Gunnar

[rammjaeger]

Fine work, Gunnar!

I remember a discussion in the Forum or another source saying a long time ago that the first British loss occured on the 15th. Otherwise I believe I have heard also a claim that the Brits or their French Allieds made the "first" and downed an British aircraft with friendly fire (?).
Maybe another Forumitee knows more and can help here?

VBR

Hannes

[Soderbaum]

Hi
2Lt MW Noel ok Sgt.Maj. DS Jillings WIA of 2 sq was finally shot up over Maffle(SE Ath).ref TSTB
The aircraft type is not given.
a slight possibility that this could be Nr: 2 ..?

This Day Trevor also reported the first missing by the British.
An Avro 504 390 2Lt WE Waterfall KIA and Lt CGG Bayly KIA from 5 sq.
The aircraft had left at 10:16 and was reported as probably shot down by German ground fire..

VBR
Gunnar

[Soderbaum]

Hi
Could have been the Avro from 5 sq on 22 Aug 1914.
Another possibility is the MFLH 355 from 5 sq which was abondened at Maubeuge on 24 Aug 1914 after engine trouble. The engine was salvaged.
Very vague correlation this time...only abondened aircraft find...But aircraft type probably dont fit.

VBR
Gunnar

Dear Hannes,
I recently read your posting about the Daily Mail Article. Was it quting a living veteran? Please email me and let me know. I do not get to the aerodrome as much as I used to.

Many thanks,
Kirk Goolsby