Methodology thread: Pilot efficiency

Hannes, Greetings: Every day, along that whole Western Front, there were close to 5K Allied, and 3K German planes in the sky, regardless of how quiet the front was. They fought each other, and every day a certain number of airmen would fall from the sky. What the table would show was how long each flyer spent in the sky each day the weather was good for flying, and what he did during that time in the sky. And wouldn't an 'active front' have deprived a pilot of dogfight time, when he had to spent many hours in strafing and tank busting and reglage missions? An inactive front: wouldnn't that give more time for aerial combat? Was denken Sie an das? Billy H/11/21/99.

[rammjaeger]

Billy,

I was meaning the activity in the air over the front not ground battles. My example fighter Baldamus had simply problems to find enough French aircraft to get more often multiple kills - therefore he has not the same chance as the Richthofen-brothers or others in their sectors with more air activity.

I am not refusing measuring or comparing pilots in this way which you were describing. I think it can give some interesting hints but it can become dangerous if somebody starts to think that such a statistical number would be the ultimative scale of measurement and evaluation of fighter pilots. That needs more than only numbers. If we are applying a reference number we have to know also about its shortages and limitations.

VBR

Hannes

Billy

I think that the problem is now bcoming that the statistical model is getting far to complex! The questions people are suggesting would seem to show that this could only be done with specific restrictions as to area of the front and year. Although in an ideal world with all the stats required it could work.

For the record it was the english PM Disraeli who came up with the 'lies, damn lies, and then there are statistics' quote!

Mark

For Ira S. Sounds like E.R.A to me. "90 days U.S.T." {P's & C's report on 2-19-00). "In the name of the Babe." VBR. Lee

[Ira_Silverman]

Billy H:

I must take exception to your statement "War is a matter of statistics, isn't it?" IMHO it most certainly isn't/wasn't. Perhaps in the capitals of the warring nations, where the Disraeli statement comes into play, it is, but certainly not in the minds of the men doing the fighting.

Aces and ace-rankings are statistical, but are only a footnote, albeit an interesting one, in the overall scheme of things.

Mark:

Thank you for crediting Disraeli with the quote. At least I had the time frame right!

Lee:

Touche! Only 90 days 'til Spring Training!

VBR,

Ira

[Ira_Silverman]

Billy H:

In continuing from my previous post, I offer the following quotations from a statistics website:

From the Scottish man of letters, Andrew Lang, commenting upon one of his contemporaries: "He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts * for support rather than illumination". And from the journalist, Simon Jenkins, on describing the national obsession with the issue of rising crime: "It is statistics as pornography".

FWIW, as one who spends a not insignificant amount of time career-wise performing statistical reliability analysis, the trick is in knowing what statistics are meaningful and what can and should be discounted. Statistics can be formed and analyzed to fit the conclusion - it is the obligation of any legitimate statistician to assure himself that he did not fall into that trap. Beware the self-fulfilling prophecy!

VBR,

Ira

[Barrett]

Billy: sorry I missed your previous query about Frank Tillman of the 1st PG. Can't place him, though Lt Stephen Tillman was an observer/gunner in a Salmson outfit (1st?) and wrote some stuff...
Oops, I got distracted by a Shania Twain commercial. I forget what she was selling, but I'd likely buy some if I'd paid enough attention to the product instead of what she was wearing.
Canadian singers are way cool...
Where were we?
Oh yes. The notable family member about whom I know the most is Marshal William M "Billy" Tilghman who at 70 was assassinated by a drunken federal prohibition agent in Oklahoma. Cousin Bill had the high honor of being portrayed on screen by no less than Sam Elliott!

[Ron_F]

All,
The way it is done is by comparing the # of total sorties, then by looking at the #of combat sorties to kills. that is how it is done. Days do not figure in, since many Luftwaffe pilots did anywhere from 2-6 or more sorties in 1 day.
i have Mike spicks book as well. As well as 'Fighter Aces of the Luftwaffe' by Toliver and Constable.
Rounds per kill were also tracked to a degree in WW2. Which is why Hans Joachim Marseille is considered the best shot of the war. But i digress....

Salute,
Ron F.

Where OI grew up we were too poor to afford to lean on Lamp Posts. But da Nuns did have candles.

Now I am goin to get another drop, all I can see is tree copies of every post on dis tread.

Dis-raeli has got to stop!!!!!!!!!


DRINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I love this thread. Heh heh heh heh!!


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