Goodbye from the Grand Poo-Bah

I almost wasn’t going to post this, since things seemed to be cooling down. However, it seems Jim has a supporter, who saw fit to address me personally – obviously, JimACE is the very picture of propriety and reason, simply misunderstood by those of us who have apparently been reading the wrong books, etc. So it appears that his style is the preferred mode of historical discourse on the Forum.

Ok, I surrender. I admit it, (1)Germany was evil – caused WWI singlehandedly, the Allies were pure as the driven snow; and (2)MvR wasn’t a real fighter pilot, he was unfit to shine Hartmann’s boots, and if it wasn’t for the War, he’d probably have been a serial killer – after all, it’s obvious he was a psychopath. Sorry I ever believed anything else – must have had my judgement clouded by der Rittmeister (in spite of Jim’s recent post, I for one do not regret the absence of that former Forum poster).

I’m tired of sparring with JimACE; it’s apparent that his opinions must be shared by most on the Forum, since they are seldom challenged any more (in spite of his continual claim that anyone who “sticks his neck out” like he does will be attacked by hordes of IGAF Groupies). It could be that no matter how knowledgeable the person is, or how logically they present an argument, he has a habit of ignoring proof that he’s way out in left field (I recall a response from one who knows several Aces personally, that if he presented Jim’s theories on what makes a successful fighter pilot to them, they’d laugh in his face! – Jim didn’t miss a beat, and still holds those same opinions.). Often, he simply resorts to insults (“What unit did YOU serve with?”) – so the person gets tired of trying. So now, I’ve apparently become his personal nemesis, the “Grand Poo-Bah of History”. If I don’t agree with his equating MvR with Ted Bundy, then he’s my “Golden Boy” (Manfred, not Ted). Actually, I have admitted MvR’s flaws, like any human being under stress, and that he’s just one of many, on both sides, that I admire for their courage and accomplishments – and I’ve never felt it necessary to denigrate one pilot in order to elevate my own favorites.

Still, I can see how, by engaging in debates with someone like him, I’m adding to the problems that have caused several people to leave. It’s a trap of the Net – by trying to point out how asinine (yeah, I’ve used the word, and use it again – it applies) someone’s ideas are, you add to the divisive atmosphere, and become part of the problem. So, I’ll not be posting here for a while. I’ll still check in, to find the gems among the lunacy, and in the hope that sanity and civility again prevail. Someone else will have to answer Jim, and correct his numerous factual errors (unless you all really DO agree with most of his points, or no one really cares about accuracy).

From offline correspondence, I’ve learned that it isn’t just the “Jastas”, “Spooks”, and “Omni”morons that chased off some people. They’re just a minor nuisance, a symptom of the Net, and are usually dealt with ably by Al and others.

Sorry I can’t end with a clever Latin phrase. Just this for the rest of the Forum: you want him, you’ve got him.

Rich

[PeterL]

Rich, you may recall I took a similar step just a little over six weeks ago. Although I am now venturing the occasional post it is evident that the malais still infects the Forum, but my self imposed exile into lurkdome enabled me to view the proceedings through different eyes and I am now much more choosey as to which threads I will participate in. I recommend all forumites to take two weeks or a month off to do the same, it's not the inspiring experience it was for me when I was a newcomer.
Hope to see you in the New Year

Peter L

[Billy_Bishop]

Rich, I hope you don't disappear completely. I understand your problem. I've had similar experiences myself. My latest tactic is to ignore certain people, specially when they start to resort to personal attacks.

The reason I do that is if I don't, then I resort to personal counter attacks.

Still, perhaps some time off from here is exactly what you need.

For myself, I've decided to basically pick and choose what I post, and what I reply to. Of course, a certain someone made it a challenge for me to post about Bishop, so I did.

And I intend to keep on posting about him too!

Until later,(VBR)

Al Lowe

Rich,
I'll quote something that is on the wall right where I go into work every morning. If you'll recall I have transferred to where the Navy and Marines teach their pilots how to fight and win in aerial combat more commonly known as Naval Fighter Weapons School (Top Gun). The quote is this " It is the AGGRESSIVE SPIRIT born of a brave heart that will win the fight no matter how technologically advanced your plane is!" It doesn't say anything about having most of the advantages in your favor, or slash and esdive techniques. That "aggressive spirit born of a brave heart" is what I've alluded to in my estimation of a "true fighter pilot". Of course common sense does figure into the equation. Everything else is my opinion, but if you wish to view it as innaccurate facts ... oh well, it doesn't keep me up late at night wondering whether or not it meets with your approval. If you still want to leave the Forum, as Curly Bill said to Wyatt Earp in 'Tombstone'... "bye"!
Regards,
Jim

Jim, the ultimate reason for a discussion is not to win, but to learn. At least it should be. "Agressive spirit" is less than useful in this regard. Perhaps you do not participate here to learn but to proof your point?

regards

Axel

[leo]

If someone offends you either personally or refutes something you say in an undignified manner, why not ignore him. I think I have learned a lot from the Forum. I hope I hav made some positive contributions. I don't see why anybody would have to leave the Forum and I would ask those considering that move to reconsider. Don't deprive the rest of us of your knowledge and opinions because a few others prove to be strident now and again. Its not fair and it doesn't make any sense and worst of all it might be just what the other guy is hoping for.

Senior Member of the LOH (Age wise)

leo

[Ron_F]

Rich,
I have sparred with Jim on MVR too. and i dont back down. And i will continue to do so, as long as i can catch the thread with errors for BOTH sides....
As far as the motto at TOP gun, i believe thats what differenciates the aces from the 'just make it through' pilots...could be wrong. but a fighter pilot just doesnt plow in with no regard to himself. they size up the situation and act accordingly. if they have sun, clouds, BVR missiles, whatever it takes to win air supiority, thats what they do. even if it means to extend and fight another day....
i hope this thread doesnt drag out either....

salute,
Ron F. aka Ronbo, jasta 1 Rb3d

[Ron_F]

Whoops!
i can also say about the Top gun motto, after i read it the second time, sorry, it could also mean 'its the man not the machine'. i hate it when forums dont have an edit button......
Looking through a copy of 'Top Gun the navys fighter weapons school' book by George Hall, he qoutes Boelkes Dicta, which, as everyone knows, #1 is 'secure all possible advantage before attacking'. He says they remain apt to this day....
Ok, enuff bantering, dont want this to turn into a long thread....sorry..

salute,
Ronbo

Rich,

I've been coming to this site for the past two years and have noticed many changes. I'm usually just an observer, however your comments strike a chord. Over the past 3-4 months there does seem to be a more vicious undertone to some of the postings.(maybe a little too much left wing sentiment?)
I was originally drawn to the quality of the historical and technical meanderings of the forumites. I recall your postings of modelling issues and historical info with the same degree of interest.
Some of the replies to your post make alot of sense.(maybe take a short breather) I hope you continue to offer your insights as you have done in the past.
VBR,

Bob

Sorry. No offense to anyone. Left out the '/right wing' portion.( It's late!)