Billy Bishop was the Greatest (For Jasta 8)

17 November 1999, 06:38 AM

This is a good point.

McCudden did claim quite a few 2 seaters, (about 46, based on my brief glance at

ATT)

Mannock has about 21 2 seater claims.

Bishop has 13 two seater claims in ATT, the rest are fighters.

Of McCudden's victories identified in ATT about 29 are two seater crews. 3 fighter pilots are identified among his victories.

About 14 two seater crews are among Mannock's identified victims. he has about 9 identified single seat victims in ATT.

Bishops two identified victories were both single seater pilots.

These numbers may be a bit off because I only briefly glanced in ATT, corrections are welcome.

Regarding George Drew I would like to point out
that his book 'Canada's Fighting Airmen' was written originally in serial form for a magazine in the 30's and does not appear to be a scholastic study as much as a popular magazine article. I am not trying to detract from Mr. Drew's work, I am just saying that it probably should be taken at the same level as the work of someone like Floyd Gibbons, i.e. not intentionally dishonest but more of a journalistic
treatment of the subject than an academic one. I am sure it has plenty of valuable accurate information in it but I would think twice before using it as a sole source. In the account of the Mcleod/Hammond affair I seem to recall one or two obvious inaccuracies if not more.

I am not putting down Mr. Drew, as a matter of fact his book is on my wish list. I am just saying that as a source he is probably comparable to Gibbons..

Regards,

MDD

Billy_Bishop · 17 November 1999, 07:47 AM

I would not put Lt. Col. Drew's book down as a scholarly work either, but he had the advantage of having fought in WWI, and he knew many of the people that he wrote about.

By the way, while we're talking about books, writers and such. Some of you may or may not know that one of MvR's most ardent detractors was none other than Ira "Taffy" Jones. The same Jones who was likely behind the "raise Mannock's score to 73" scheme.

Do any of you know who one of MvR's most ardent defenders among the Allied pilots was???

VBR,

Al Lowe

17 November 1999, 01:21 PM

Just dropped by and see that the usual bull@#$% continues. You guys remember Bert? He was the guy who pointed out that based on German records, almost every Allied ace was either a liar or a fool. Claxton for example has 0 confirmed out of 37. Jasta 8 conveniently fails to mention this and claims accuracy for German records based on the fact that McCudden's claims are to some extent confirmed. What about the fact that the German records do not confirm about 90% of every other claim. What "conclusion" do you draw from that, you slanderous little bastard? I draw the conclusion that German records are incompetent crap.

I'll drop in again sometime.

wings · 17 November 1999, 07:46 PM

Your words fit you well.

rammjaeger · 17 November 1999, 10:37 PM

I like this woodcutter sound.

Billy_Bishop · 18 November 1999, 04:48 AM

Previously I said...
"Do any of you know who one of MvR's most ardent defenders among the Allied pilots was???"

At a time when surviving WWI pilots were trying to make a living, one of MvR's most ardent defenders was

Billy Bishop. At this same time, a series of articles was being published in English newspapers, written by

Ira Jones attacking MvR's character, as well as his skill and leadership abilities.

Many of the false rumours and stories we hear today, that denigrate MvR's memory started with Jones.

Yet it was Billy Bishop who stood up and defended his memory. It was Billy Bishop who told us what a great fighter pilot MvR was.

But I guess if Bishop lied about his claims, he must have lied about MvR as well.

VBR,

Al Lowe

Reinout · 19 November 1999, 01:46 AM

Al,

I think we can believe Bishop...just this once!

Kind regards,

Reinout

Billy_Bishop · 20 November 1999, 01:33 PM

Well, if I have to believe Bishop when he talked about MvR, then I might as well believe he wasn't lying on his victory claims either.

VBR,

Al Lowe

Reinout · 22 November 1999, 09:25 PM

Dear Al,

"Well, if I have to believe Bishop when he talked about MvR, then I might as well believe he wasn't lying on his victory claims either.

"

Hmmm, there is a certain logic to that...

Kind regards,

Reinout

Billy_Bishop · 23 November 1999, 04:41 PM

Mind you, it doesn't mean he was right. As most of us realize now, it's possible that mistakes, HONEST mistakes in victory claims were made by many of the pilots, and gunners of all the wars.

It's just that I don't think he purposely lied about his victory claims.

Of course, that's simply my opinion.

VBR,

Al Lowe