11th April 1917 - just curious

I found the following in a diary of the war online at http://www.finsysgp.com/macbob/RLM_Diary.html

"So ended Part One of the Arras show of April, 1917.

I forgot to mention that on the 11th. I saw one Hun plane bring down five of our slow, heavy, artillery observation planes, one after another.

Our fellows were very game to stick to their work as they did, practically without protection, absolutely at the mercy of any fast Hun machine. "

Question: does somebody know wether a German pilot claimed five victories that day? Or who the victims in this "bloody April" where?

Just curious to knot some loose threads.

regards

Axel

[Barrett]

Jagdfliegern claimed 19 shootdowns on 11 Apr 17. No individual got 5 though Klein (J.4) and Bernert (J.B) each got 2. Five J.11 pilots including the von Richthofen boys got one each between 0900 and 0925. If each had some red on his bird, that might account for the diary entry.

Thanks, Barret.

I don´t think that the diary entry can be interpreted as victories of several planes. To me this reads like a single plane attacking a formation (of rather newbies) and picking off one after the other. This is, of course, just how I read the line. It can be that he simply combined several events of this day (being in battle and advancing he probably had other things to do as well) or it maybe that he missed the exact date by a day or two. Other explanations might be that either the recces did not really went down, but just did the dive into safety (if there were others in the formation this is a likely way to escape since the hunter can only follow one prey, and seemed intent on disrupting the formation more than getting a sure kill) or that the kills were not claimed or claimed but not confirmed because the impact was not observed (likely it was not, since he was hunting the others and could probably only account for last).

Well, this is the moment I REALLY long for a searchable database of the flight-reports. Frank?

IF the observation is real, it sheds some light onto the skill of some of the new crews that were sent in to cover the British advance into the cleared areas.

regards

Axel

[Soderbaum]

Hi Axel
The Nachrichtenblatt(NB) reported 23 enemy aircraft shot down in air combat and 1 other by ground fire on 11 April 1917. 9 of these e/a fell within German lines. This total corresponds better with actual allied losses i have notes of. But the Abschusse list only 19 victories as Barrett pointed out. The Abschusse list is sometimes incomplete, and also the Daily reports in NB mentioned above is also wrong because they miss evening victories but could on the other hand also contain claims which were not officialy confirmed...!
Probably Frank Olynyk has the complete list of victories for this Day..?
Another possibility for this incident is that Lt Otto Bernert of Jasta Bölcke himself shot down Five british aircraft within 20 minutes on the 24 April 1917. Four of these fell within German lines. One of these five seemed to has been counterclaimed by K-Flak 94(?) but was confirmed to Lt Bernert.
This was the first time a German pilot destroyed five enemy on a single Day.
VBR
Gunnar

Hi Gunnar,

I think that it is well possible that the line onto the airfight, entered as kind of an afterthought (see the diary for this), may be on the wrong date.

Since the diary is of a Scot I assume that the fight should be near the front or behind British lines.

Thanks for your input. I am sure this soldier did not imagine that 80 years after the event and 20 years after his death a international group of nettizens would try to figure out the name of the involved airmen.

12 and a half hour to armistice time.

regards

Axel

[Barrett]

Another possible explanation for the discrepancy could be two shootdowns by German observation or attack aircraft, which of course wouldn't show in the jasta records.

I find it hard to believe that this feat (observed by a scot who would hardly brag about the German airforce) could have been done by a German not in a Jasta.

I tend to assume that he mistook the date for a week, though it is also possible that the recces made it back in low heigth. This man was unlikely to be an expert in the observations of air combat and might well have thought of a British plane that went out of sight as killed.