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| 1999 Closed threads from 1999 (read only) |
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5 November 1999, 12:34 PM
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#1 (permalink)
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Guest
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I have two: Oswald Boelcke, because he was incredible, and born on my birthday (May 19th) as well.
I also like Raymond Collishaw, which reminds me of this story:
"Once, while attempting to deliver a note from a mate to a local girl, (Collishaw) crashed into a row of outhouses, covering himself in excrement and toilet paper and destroying the plane. The girl was not impressed." --Canadian Aces Home Page
I still think that is the funniest story I have ever heard from WWI.
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5 November 1999, 12:49 PM
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#2 (permalink)
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: The American West
Posts: 4,809
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Oooh...a real toughie.
Living or dead?
Living: probably Joe Foss since he wanted me to marry his grand daughter. However, Misty had other plans...
Deceased: among those I knew, impossible to say. Marion Carl was terrific, and Charlie Stimpson was one of the nicest, funniest people ever. John Waddy from Australia could keep a whole room in stitches without trying. Dick Turner was among the most talented...good writer and great artist...who had a terribly sad bout with Alzheimer's.
WW I: again, impossible to say. During the '80s it was possible to know Ray Brooks, Doug Campbell, Ken Porter, Bob Todd, George Vaughn and perhaps a few others. Ken was a crusty old bird but you couldn't help but like him...he'd stay up late sipping adult beverages and putting the young squirts from WW II under the table.
Limited to one: Boelcke. Head, heart, hands, and an incredible ability to lead and teach simultaneously.
__________________
You will not rise to the occasion: You will default to your level of training.
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5 November 1999, 02:28 PM
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#3 (permalink)
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Forum Ace
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Gardner, Kansas
Posts: 1,086
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Melinda;
First on my list would be Ken Martin who died less than a year ago. He was my best friend, and the god-father of my daughter. He was the best man I ever knew.
Jim Howard would have to be second on my list. He was a good friend for several years, and any man who could become an ace over China, then over Germany, plus win the CMH along the way can have my vote.
Third, would be Dick Turner, who Barrett has already mentioned.
As far as WW1, Manfred von Richthofen because there has never been one better
__________________
Richard Schrader
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5 November 1999, 03:56 PM
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#4 (permalink)
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Guest
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Melinda,
My top favorite ace of aces is Luftwaffe Ace Erich 'Bubi' Hartmann "The Black devil of the Ukraine". The reason is that any one who can go up and face combat 352 times and come out alive is a superior Fighter Pilot. He is the World's Leading Ace, and the top dog! For WW1 it would be Eddie Rickenbacker, Frank Luke, and Billy Bishop, for IGAF it would be Oswald Boelcke and Werner Voss. Greatest Fighter pilot of WW1 would be Rene Fonck, 75 kills and he survived it!
Regards,
Jim
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5 November 1999, 05:02 PM
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#5 (permalink)
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Guest
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Dear Melinda: If you like Collishaw mbecause he had the same birthday as you, then you will simply swoon over Frank Luke, who was born on 19 May 1897, but...maybe not because he did not crash into any benjoes, as they say in Nihon...I spent a couple of years in Korea with the 8th Fighter, in the crash crews, and must have seen every ace we ever had in flight, as well as those who weren't aces, and they were all there with the right stuff. They were always outnumbered when they went up to Mig Alley, but they always went. I recall one New Year's day, they sent one plane up there (all we had available) and he came back with a victory so close to the deck that the suction from his passing pulled our clothes off and we almost froze to death. ..Brave men are brave men and I favor them all, in all wars. Billy H, with kindest regards./11/06/99.
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5 November 1999, 05:21 PM
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#6 (permalink)
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Two-seater Pilot
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 104
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Melinda,
UK:
WW1- LANOE HAWKER: He was their first, and, because he gave MvR a run for his money. (but for a few gallons of petrol, aviation history may have been very different...)
WW2- DOUGLAS BADER: here was a man who had lost his legs and still shot down 23 German planes when his country needed him..This man defined courage.....
Germany:
WW1-I also say OSWALD BOELCKE: His eye for talent and ability to teach was as good as his talent for flying and ability to kill....
WW2- HEINZ BAER: This is the Ace of all time! He may not have had the numbers that Erich Hartmann did (352 vs. 220), but Baer shot down everybody! 4 kills in France, top scoring NCO ace Battle of Britain (13), 79 Eastern Front, 45 in North Africa, 83 on Western front including 21 4-engine bombers, and Top Scoring Jet ace with Me-262 (16) Flew from 39-45 and lived to tell the tale....
United States
WW1- Lt WILBERT W. WHITE...
WW2- Maj THOMAS B. McGuire...
Because "Above and beyond the call of duty" is something that should be remembered... (Mr.White Still deserves his CMH...)
VBR
Scotty
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6 November 1999, 04:38 AM
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#7 (permalink)
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Forum Ace
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Lansing, MI USA
Posts: 2,564
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Well, let me see.
No.1 Billy Bishop. Why? That's difficult to say, no specific reason really, just because.
No.2 Robert S. Johnson(WWII), He writes a good book, even if he did have help from Martin Caiden.
No.3 Everyone else. Why? Because it's difficult for me to pick anyone specific after the first two. I could site a list longer than my Christmas wish list, and it wouldn't do any good.
The fairest thing for me to say is that ALL the aces as well as those who didn't reach ace status have a special place in my "favorites" list.
To me, anyone who fought for his country deserves to be on someone's "list of favorites". And if that means that some of us have to take up the slack for the more ignorant* people, so be it.
VBR,
Al Lowe
*By "ignorant" I'm referring to those billions of people who have totally forgotten WWI, WWII, and just about any other war. Not to mention those not so rare ones who refuse to learn from past mistakes.
__________________
Al Lowe
The Billy Bishop Zone
The posession of arms is the distinction between a Freeman and a slave.
- MP Andrew Fletcher, 1698
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6 November 1999, 10:50 AM
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#8 (permalink)
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Guest
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My favourite First World War ace - Stearne T. Edwards. Many years ago, courtesy of the late Harry Creagen, I was able to read many letters that Edwards wrote to his family. His sister also had vivid recollections. Between these documents, his log book, combat reports, and material collected by the late Fred Hitchins, I felt I knew this man, even though he had died on 22 November 1918. Edwards was, quite, simply, a wholly decent man and a very skilled air fighter. One of the least known war memorials is a plaque in the Presbyterian church in Carleton Place, Ontario, dedicated to Edwards and unvieled in 1920 by his good friend, A.R. Brown. I wrote a long article about Edwards, which was published about 1962 in a now-defunct magazine called WINGS IN SPACE - although it was largely reprinted a few years back in a book about airmen from Carleton Place, the title of which I cannot recall (BIRTHPLACE OF THE CANADIAN AIR FORCE ? CRADLE OF THE CANADIAN AIR FORCE ? - sorry people, I should have checked the reference before rushing forward with this submission)
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6 November 1999, 02:05 PM
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#9 (permalink)
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Guest
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WW1 I would have to say Arthur Cobby, he was a handful to any C.O.
Anyone who while a patrol could land behind his own lines participate in a horse race (decked out in full flying gear) being organised by the Light Horse, win the race and then jump back in his plane and continue his patrol, has the right stuff by me, that besides the fact that he was Australia's highest ranked surviving "ace" of WW1.
WW2 I would put my hand up for Saburo Sakai, anyone who could match it with one eye, out numbered and reportedly come home without a scratch on his plane, is a great pilot. That and the fact that when he attacked a RAAF Boston (?) and they in turn attacked him throwing the plane around like a fighter. After the war he tracked down the survivig crew and gave them all a token of his esteem for their courage, he was really the last great knight (samurai) of the sky.
Regards,
Andrew.
PS GO THE WALLABIES "WORLD CHAMPS!!!!!"
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7 November 1999, 12:29 AM
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#10 (permalink)
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Sep 1998
Posts: 4,442
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For the German side:
WWII: Heinz Bär, born near Leipzig. Scotty gave already the reasons.
WWI: Hartmut Baldamus - because he missed two times to get the well-earned Pour le mérite. At first together with Richthofen and others because the criteria were changed (from 8 to 16 kills). The second time when he had achieved the score of 16 (NOT 20), he did not get this award because he died in a crash with a French pilot in aircombat in foggy weather.
Additional his comrades said he could easy get a higher score than Richthofen when placed on another (more active) front. He was born and buried in Dresden. He rests on the same cemetery as Immelmann and Wüsthoff.
Other airservices in WWI:
WWI: James McCudden and Georges Guynemer.
WWII: Worosheikin (46 Germans and 7 Japanese shot down) and some Japanese, US- and British pilots.
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