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1999 Closed threads from 1999 (read only)


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Old 17 October 1999, 01:53 PM   #1 (permalink)
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No, I'm not writing it--neither are Boom nor Puresome. However, I've just seen copies at the Champlin Fighter Museum in Mesa, AZ. The title is "A Bonfire in the Sky" by John Kosck and published by Regent Press in Oakland, CA. About 170 pgs, softbound; don't know the price. The author is married to an FL niece.
Yes, FL does die with smoking Colt pistol in hand...and not for purpose of signaling, either. (However, I seriously doubt he had an 8-round magazine.)
As for Boom, Puresome et moi, "Duel Over Douai" continues to continue. Watch this space.
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Old 17 October 1999, 04:07 PM   #2 (permalink)
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One Marjorie Luke, who I believe, was a niece of FL was in Hollywood in the '60s. This may be the individual whose husband is the author of the novelization of the FL story. I have a letter from the 27ths "Shorty" Williams in which he wrote that she was in possession of his diary (original? or copy?- he didn't say) and had a script concerning FL that she was attempting to sell to the studios. I would hope that she didn't depend too much on that diary! You can see excerpts of said diary on the web site <27thpursuit>. That site is moribund: I have a hunch that the key figure there was hoping to do something from a literary perspective and possibly has felt that Billy H.s work obsoleted his efforts. He offers a review of Billy's " September Rampage" and seems to be the only one with information concerning a film script on FL which he identifies as being titled "21". Possibly he may be the originator or the advisor to an author? VBR. LEB
 
Old 18 October 1999, 07:40 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Barrett: I had some beer and tamales with John Park Luke, Frank's nephew in Phoenix last month and he showed me Koseck's Bonfire; since I did not read it in detail, I can't comment on the book, especially since Koseck is John's cousin (and was a fighter pilot in WWII.). A friend of mine, Jeff Phister came out to John's house, and gave me a copy of his screenplay on Luke, on which I offer no comment...Fiction is fiction, but historical fiction, if written properly, will be as accurate about physical details, as pure history is about these details (where they are known). Where something is not known, speculation is the order of the day, but that speculation should derive from the known responses of the subject, not the known, or felt responses of the writer, were he in a similar situation...In the case of how many cartridges were held in theu clip of the Colt .45, the answer is neither six (6) nor eight (8) but seven (7). The source for this is pp 1848-185 of "Military Science and Tactics (Infantry Advanced) PS Bond Publishing Co, 1938. Section 13. The Magazine states, "The magazine holds 7 cartridges." This is confirmed by a photo in Crowell's "Munitions of War-1917 to 1918" shown on the page before 187, which shows the pistol and the 7 round clip. Shown on this page is the Colt .45 revolver with a 6 round clip. On page 185 of the first reference section 15 of Mechanical Operation it is stated: "To prepare the pistol for instant use and to fire with the least possible delay the maximum nnnumber of shots, draw back the slide, insert a cartridge by hand into the chamber, allow the slide to close, then lock the mechanism by means of the safety lock, and insert a loaded magazine (7 rds). The slide and hammer being thus positively locked, the pistol may be safely carried at full cock, and it is only necessary to press down the safety lock when ready to fire." Barrett, there is the 8th round, but it not part of the magazine; and that there was a 6 round magazine for the .45 is true, if applied to the Colt revolver. My final thought is that historical fiction based on technical reality renders value received. Technical reality is what Tom Clancy uses to give life to his fictional characters, and he makes us remember that no system is beyond the curse of chaos because chaos is usually introduced by the human element that drives the system. (Can we get a technical and bibliographical button?) Billy H/10/20/99.
 
Old 19 October 1999, 01:45 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Billy: right you are, but "Bonfire" mentions FL firing 8 rounds (nobody knows!) which means either he'd have to fly with a full magazine plus one in the chamber (not recommended procedure) or once on the ground he chambered a round and "topped off" the mag with a loose cartridge before engaging the Germans. even less likely.
My first 8-round M1911 magazine was purchased c. 1980, and at that time I was the baddest dude on the range.
Half-moon clips each holding 3 rounds were available for the New Service revolver, permitting it to chamber the same .45 ACP cartridge as the semiauto pistol. There's evidence that Sam Woodfill used a New Service in his CMH action. the reason Gary Cooper used a Luger in the 1941 "Sgt York" movie was that .45s didn't function well with blanks in those days. Even in current films, if you see a 1911 it's likely a .38 Super, which is what Tom Selleck used in the Magnum PI TV series. (Favorite line: "Ivan, did you see the sun rise this morning?" Second favorite line, from Higgins: "Zeus, Apollo: kill.")
OK, ladies: I have a 1911 pistol; a gaudy Hawaiian shirt and a VMO-2 DaNang ball cap. All I need is a mustache, a Ferrari, and Tom Selleck's body...right?
Hmmm...that's what I thought. My Sharps rifle doesn't make me Quigley, either.
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Old 20 October 1999, 04:29 PM   #5 (permalink)
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If we put an A at the end of your name we turn you into an Italian hand gun, but seriously: Bonfire of the Sky is fiction, and John Kosek did not know how many rounds FL fired. If you refer to September Rampage, page 201, Appendix T, The 1962 Murvaux Affidavit taken by Major Royal Fry, the witnesses state that the Germans came down from the Cote St Germain and from Murvaux; approached the plane, and saw the bloodstains leading to the Milly Creek, "75 meters distant". The witnesses said that none of the G infantry men fired their weapons, but that Luke fired at the German soldiers, without hitting anyone as there was no report of dead Jerries; that no one got hit indicates that the German patrol was not within the effective range of his .45, nor was there any need to close in on him, and experienced soldiers would not have gone in standing up, and in a bunch, but spread out, and crawled to either flank, and approached their target, or better yet have thrown a grenade, before rushing in. Add to this the fact that Frank took a 37mm slug that transversed from right to left, landed the plane, dismounted, crawled to the creek, where ten minutes later the German infantry surrounded him; had strength enough to fire, then died from loss of blood, speaks volumes for the courage he showed in his last minutes: he made good his brag that the Gs would not take him alive. It is apparent that the bullet that entered Frank did not penetrate the heart, but passed through diagonally exiting under the left shoulder blade, producing a wound "two and one half inches" wide. That slug would have passed through his right , to create an immediate drop in blood pressure and loss of consciousness. Finally, if we assume that Frank fired 8 times, is it safe to assume (considering the condition he was in) that he hit 8 Germans (considering their method of attack), the light conditions, and the ground cover in September? There is a lot of misinformation perpetuated about Luke, misinformation generated by writers who don't document their narratives, and we have 81 years of succeeding writers copying this misdata over and over again. An example of this undocumented data is in the message Luke was supposed to have dropped at Balloon Wing HQ at Souilly. We have three different messages, from three different sources, but, as I pointed out in my book, why would he do such a thing, when there was a French balloon at Verdun, the observer of which could have called that info into Souilly, or better yet, he could have used the phone in the ops office. And if someone would have looked at the map and measured the distance between Souilly and Verdun, which we did, it would be obvious that Luke would have had to fly west of Verdun and south about 20 miles (as shown on the map on page 120) then back another 20 miles + 12 miles to get to Murvaux to the north of Verdun. If this diversion to Souilly took place, Luke could not have been in Murvaux at the time he was supposed to be downed. The other element is that the distance from Souilly to Murvaux was too far for the balloon people at Souilly to see him down the balloons, if you consider the intervening heights, some as high as 300 meters. At that distance the momentary flash of a balloon explosion would have blended in with the usual flare from the enemy artillery, and not have been noticed had the Souilly people been able to see that far. I think I discussed the issue ofAS Williams writing that Luke did not top off his tanks, and that that prevented him from returning to Verdun, where he might have been given prompt treatment, as you wrote in your review of September Rampage; that my counter was that that 37mm tunnel through his chest could not have been repaired. At the point Luke was hit, he was only a few cliks away fom our lines opposite Dun sur Meuse. Had he run out of gas he could have easily glided that far. He did not have to take the long way back. In the long run Luke is not responsible for what people say he did, or how he did it, unless it corresponds with the truth, but critics should document their remarks. Kindest regards Billy H/110/20/99.
 
Old 20 October 1999, 06:06 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Howdy Lee Branch: I went out to see John P Luke, nephew to Frank, and my friend Jeff Phister came to John's house to see me: well he gave me a copy of his screenplay (worked on it for six years). Jeff had as agent in LA, but she was not impressed with the story: did not think she could dramatize it, but my feeling is that women aren't capable of dramatizing men at war, and that she did not have a feel for visualizing the dramatic effect of an exploding balloon outling the smallness of Spad 26 against the night sky. Jeff should have told her to get clips of the Hindenburg blowout in 1934 and try her eyeballs on that scene...I don't know where Dan Conover is: there are no anwers to our e-mails, but oas you saay his 27th Aero site is moribund (no updates since July, last). I don't think September Rampage killed his ambition. He said all good things about my work, and he was sincere about his review of the work and I told Dan that he could use anything in the book to update his 27th Aero, which he said was a research site, and a well planned one to boot. He's a reporter for the Post and Courier in Carolina and that he was too busy to immediately update the 27th. Now a TV producer by the name of Tad Hall called in an order for September Rampage, and wanted it FED EXd as he wanted to do a TV documentary on the Luke's rampage. Writing a book and writing a screenplay are two different things; my September Rampage couldnnnn't interfere with anyone writing a screenplay on Luke; in fact my book would be an aid to anyone doing a play for Hollywood; not the reverse. As to the diary, Bill Luke believes a relative name Mary Pat may have it...In a letter to John Kosek (bonfire in the Sky) his cousin, Bill stated that so many articles and stories about Frank adveresly calling him a madman annoyed the family, hence their reluctance to release paper on their kin; I do not blame them. Frank Luke was my hero since I've been six and in my study of this airman I've found out that he does not deserve criticism for adverse attributes invented by people who are somehow offended by his heroism, or are offended by achievements they can't attain, or other people who can't recognizance greatness, because they are too small; and or people with an agenda. Kindest regards: Billy H/10/21/99.
 
Old 21 October 1999, 04:42 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The knowledge Barrett has displayed is impressive. I always wondered why Gary Cooper used a P-08 in "SERGEANT YORK" instead of the M1911 that Cpl Alvin York actually used in combat. Now I know.

As it happens, I carry eight-round magazines in my Colt Mk IV's. They are Wilson-Rogers magazines, they are stainless steel, they cost twenty-five bucks a throw...and they are worth every cent.

I personally believe that FLJ should have carried a M1918 BAR...if he had, he might have turned the tide of the Great War in that glorious September. Who knows what the right man can achieve when armed with the correct weapon, in the right place at the right time?
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