Luke Affidavit

[stephen]

Lee wrote in another thread...

"Carisella according to Wynne, was also dubious of the Luke-Murvaux incident. His story was that in the '30s he had corresponded with the German officer who was active at the scene when
"26" hit the ground. The German recalled no determined gunplay on the part of the flyer. The letter from the mayor et al certainly stands in opposition to the recollections of the Kaiser's man on the scene. Does anyone have anymore on the Murvaux letter? Has Carisella's research survived? Is the original "Letter from Murvaux" in anybody's possession? I first encountered it in Hartney's "Up And At'em" (first pub'd. in 1938). Does the letter have earlier appearances in WWI literature? I stand with the Luke story as generally accepted; there have been so many other "They'll never take me alive!" scenarios that there is every reason to believe Luke preferred death to captivity. Billy?, Stephen? Any thoughts on the above from you- and others of course- would be appreciated. VBR. LEB"

[stephen]

Lee, every original source that I can name or have ever seen supports the position that multiple shots were fired. What little actual evidence is available (see Bill's book "Rampage") seems to show beyond doubt that Luke fired 2-4 shots, and that those shots were aimed at German troops. The approximate number of total shots fired is not known, but would be a big clue as to whether or not the Germans returned fire. Hopefully, when we get the Frey files from the Lafayette Foundation, we will have more to go on. The next logical step would be to get the Carisella research, then start researching Geman records. Alot remains to be done at this point.

To me, the major question to be answered is whether or not the Germans returned fire. The fact that Luke fired at the Germans is at this point supportable and logical. We should get the final go-ahead to begin retrieving the Frey files within a week. Stay tuned. 400 delicious, juicy pages of original research wait for us... and the Lafayette Foundation says that none of it has been accessed by recent researchers.

[leo]

I am curious. Why is it so important to know why the Germans returned fire at Luke? What would you expect them to do, pepper him with sauer kraut balls?

[stephen]

Its not important to know WHY they returned fire... its important to know IF they returned fire. There is some evidence from Royal Frey's research in 1961-62 that they may not have returned fire at all, and Luke may have died from wounds received in the air. Latter-day, half-researched revisionists have capitalized on this in an effort to debunk everything, going so far as to claim that he simply crawled from the plane and died without firing a shot. That's the question. And no, in the grand scheme of life on this planet, it does not matter. Neither does who killed the Red Baron or did Oswald act alone.

But I still wanna know.

Stephen, will you think less of Luke if he just crawled away from the wreck and died?

Graham

[Kirby]

Graham

I don't know about Stephen but I would not think less of Luke if he "just crawled away and died". If he was injured badly enough while in the air or from his impact with the ground, that might have been all he was physically capable of doing. That's what we're trying to find out.

VBR
Kirby

[leo]

I have heard for years that when Luke was brought down he fought off a company of German infantry with his service pistol before being shot himself. I've heard it for so long and so often that it would be hard to accept any other version of this heros death/

Stephen: Thank you for your valuable thoughts on the chronicles of the last moments of Frank Luke. Carisella must have left a tremendous legacy to researchers. Do you know of the whereabouts? Possibly at some University? I am nervous about that if so!. Private bequests had contributed significantly to the once significant holdings on reserve at Aviation Room at Claremont Graduate School. They have disappeared with apparently no trace. I'm hoping some of it has merged into the general category shelves but know at least that the "collections room" is no longer in existence and the complete "Cross & Cockade" holdings, avail. when I was a student there, are no longer known by the library staff. The 27th Pursuit "Ace" Ralph O'Neil's rare autobiography has been similarly "winnowed" from the Ontario, Calif. Library system since I read it some five years ago. I wonder if we shouldn't ask volunteers to initiate a Master List of works valuable to us and then undertake to canvass the various library entities in our locales who might hold WWI aviation lore. This hopefully,to ensure that more such works don't "go missing" I found by sheer luck some estates unappreciated legacy to the San Bernardo Valley College Library which were being sold ($1.00 ea)in the "Bargain Box". Included were Houston Woodward's posthumous (KIA w/SPA 94) "A Year For France". An original of 1919 as published by Yale Press. There were numerous others from someone's WWI collection that had to have originated prior to 1920. Here again a challenge to present researchers (and perhaps a responsibility to future researchers of WWI Av. History?) to look into re-publication of some of these old gems that are going to be lost to posterity. Perhaps the solution will lie in the recent technology that is enabling rapid downloading and book-binding of requested text on a "while you wait basis". Let me close by noting that to my absolute delight I was able to find Buckley's "95 Squadron" available on Amazon. For those who don't know it, may I suggest it as a "must read"? (I know of one original in a Van Nuys bookstore for about five times the price of the re-edition) I also see that Waldo Heinrich's diary (he of the 94th Pursuit) is in publication and available, I believe, from History Bookshelf. I have it coming and if it wasn't HB I'll notify. VBR. LEB

Unless there is more detail in Frey's research, he reported it in the JAAHS long ago. Summed up, he talked to people who were there in the village and surrounding farms, who said that Luke landed near a stream, got out and made his way to the stream and died there. He fired some shots to get help--he had a bad stomach wound and one of the witnesses was sure that he was trying to get a drink--stomach wounds tend to cause ravenous thirst.
Don't mistake historians trying to cut through the myths and "ballyhoo" supplied by the yard in the 20's as "revisionists", except in the best sense--revising lies into truth. I don't know how anyone could think that Royal Frey was interesting in anything other that the truth. I also don't know how anyone could think that this version "belittles" Frank Luke--unless you think that you could have done better than he, had YOU been gutshot in a Spad.

[Vin]

Haven't these blokes Carisella and Frey read the Affidavit ? Only kidding, Stephen.

As a matter of interest, I am reading the autobiography of Rommel. His first engagements with the French, in 1914, were at Murvaux.


Vin