Immelmann

Hello All,

Immelmann seems like not a nice person to know. I have read that he had a green E.III is this true? and also are the Immelmann's still alive today?

Thanks,

Ben

Hello Ben,
In photographs,Max Immelmann always seems to strike an arrogant pose.Some reports describe him as a self-serving glory seeker.But then again,that could describe most aces in history.Besides,he wasn't given his pilot's badge for his personality.Perhaps it isn't fair to judge someone who lived and died so long ago.As for your other questions about Immelmann's EIII and his family descendants,seek out Amy or some of our eagle-eyed European friends such as Reinout,Soderbaum,or Hannes. If memory serves me,Immelmann and Hannes are from the same city-Dresden.I would think that there are some Immelmann descendents alive today. Good Luck!!
Gary Jacobs

Ben,
He probably would fall into the same category as Fonck. Arrogant, but good at his game. What Gary says is true, awards aren't given for being a nice guy in a fight, usually the opponent is determined to kill, and if one fails at the moment of truth he usually gets the Order of the Wooden Cross.
VBR,
Jim

[rammjaeger]

Ben,

I think Immelmann was really mastering the art of self-marketing. I am therefore prefering another of my Dresden-born compatriots with name Baldamus (18 victories) - a very deep-minded and quiete man. B.s comrades said he could easy pass MvR´s score (early 1917) if he would fight on a more active front. There is one person - a woman - in Dresden who is knowing much more than me about Max but I did never get a reply if I tried to contact her. Some people told me she was interviewing the relatives of Max Immelmann (the family seems to live in Leipzig now) and would know more than every other person about Immelmann.

I have only heard about a green Fokker flown by Mr Fokker himself but I think in prewar-times.

Sincerely

Hannes

[Reinout]

Ben,

I have seen the green Fokker coming up sooner or later in most Immelmann discussions. I used to believe in it, but as the bio of Immelmann in Volume III of the "Aviation Awards" series makes no mention of it, I don't know if there's any truth to it. Neal always researches his work very well and if there were a green EIII, Neal would surely have known I guess. But I shall inquire further.

As to his personality, he was not an easily likeable man. Far from it probably. Immelmann was very arrogant or became that way through his success. He always had himself photographed with each enemy plane he'd downed and also whenever he got a new medal so in that respect he was arrogant and vain. Many people who knew him also attested to his arrogance, but usually confirmed MI's excellent skills in the air as well. MI certainly did some self-marketing and I have now come to the belief (this is a belief not a fact) that MI was much more famous than Oswald Boelcke while the two were still alive. Only after MI's death did the fame of OB outclass that of the Eagle of Lille with the German population. At least that is my GUESS.

Friends, it was said he had but one, Oswald Boelcke. Recently uncovered letters of OB show he had some disparaging things to say about MI so their friendship is now called into doubt.

According to Volume III, Max Ritter von Mulzer was also a friend of MI. Certainly, they did fly together at times and Mulzer was the one who carried the Ordenskissen at MI's funeral. I think we can pass this man off as a genuine friend of MI. Then there are the royals of Saxony. The King (Friedrich August III if I recall correctly) and the Crown Prince Georg often invited MI for dinner and such. And the King even granted the highly unprecedented award of a Military St.Henry Order, Commander 2nd Class to a mere Leutnant, so that says something of his affection for him.

Immelmann had some friends but they numbered few. He had no vices in terms of drinking, smoking and womanising, but that is not something to judge likeability by.

All in all I would say MI was a difficult chap to like, but we'll never know. Maybe if we found some scriblings of Mulzer, Prince Georg or the King about the most famous Saxon airman.

Kind regards,

Reinout

What did a pilot have to do to get the wooden cross? I was reading a book about an ace (I can't remember who it was) but he said he almost won the wooden cross. Also was it realy made of wood?

[PeterL]

I will not presume to add anything to what has already been said about the man by contibutors with a depth of knowlege I cannot hope to match, but I can submit a modellers view on the question of a green Fokker. Recently modellers publications have suggested a grey green colour as an alternative standard for some EII's and EIII's. A shade not dissimilar to the WW2 RLM Grau 02. If it was indeed one of the standard finishes then there would have been no reason to mention it in reports. FWIW.

Peter L

[Darryl]

Paul,

Order of the Wooden Cross is not one you want to win, it comes with a citation to your parents reading something like "we regret to inform you..."

regards

Darryl