Way off the Topic

G'day all,
I know this is off the topic but I would be interested in some of your opinions especially those of you fellow forumites from the US.

As we know East Timor is a blood bath, Australia is trying to form an international peace keeping force, when our Prime Minister "Little" Johnny Howard asked Bill "come on honey don't talk with your mouth full" Clinton for help in this matter, good old Bill said no, at best some logistical support. Australia and America have had a 50 year alliance, the US has asked Australia for support on numerous occasions, they include, Korea, Vietnam, Somalia, and both times against Iraq, and more recently Kosovo (sp?) on the other hand Australia has not asked for any US military support since the combined efforts in WW2. Now some idiots in my country have attacked a US Naval ship by coating it with red paint and throwing a chicken on board, I do not condone those actions, I also am not one of those many people that expect US servicemen and women to be the worlds police force, however I would have hoped that with the crisis between Indonesia and Australia growing by the hour, the US government would have stepped up and supported us, I am not having a go at the US citizen as I have a gut feeling they would support Australia's stance 100%, I am just wondering if Bill has forgotten who his real allies are, so far Australia has gained support from Canada, New Zealand, Britain, not to forget many of our Asian neighbours.

What are your thoughts on the subject, I am personally saddened by the US governments stance, as from a boy we have always been told that in a crisis the US would help Australia.

On another note Australia should have kicked Indonesia out of East Timor back in the early 70's, the decision not to has come back to haunt Australia.

Regards,
Andrew.

[stephen]

Don't try to understand Clinton's thought processes. None of the rest of us can, either. One possible reason for his refusal to assist is because the military is already stretched beyond its limits. Clinton has deployed the military around 300% more than any other president since WW2 (mostly on feel-good, unwinnable mission-on-wheels projects), depending on how you count. He's also stripped the military to roughly half the size it was 15 years ago and spent the dividends on his social programs to build his voting block. As evidenced by his under-the-table alliances with China, our mutual enemy and greatest threat, he has no appreciation or loyalty to anyone but himself. Not even the poor idiots who helped get him elected. Not even his wife.

The American people have not forgotten who our real friends are, and rest assured that Australia is at the top of the list. As soon as we get over this stupid attack and elect someone other than a draft dodging traitorous criminal, we'll try to be worthy allies again. In the meantime, accept our apologies.

If you want military support, just take out an ad in Soldier of Fortune magazine. There are many Americans who would be willing to stand beside and support their friends, even if the Draft Dodger-in-Chief ignores your requests.

[Vin]

The U S has considerably more invested in Indonesia than in Australia. Indeed, Australia has considerable investment in Indonesia which is a significant trading partner. The U S is effectively supporting Indonesia at the moment. Most analysts have been saying for years that in the event of conflict between Australia and Indonesia, the U S would not fight against Indonesia. It does not matter who the president of USA is, she will not risk war with Indonesia. Neither will Australia.


Vin

[Kirby]

Andrew

It is usually only when he has his ass in a sling that he transforms himself from Willy the Weasle into William the Warrior. His only goal is self aggrandizement. That doesn't mean that the rest of us won't back our Australian Brothers and Sisters. Most of us will. If the new Waco investigation gets too hot for him, he might react in Australia's favor.


Soon Willy be gone. Remember the old German song that says "Einmal werden froh wir sagen, Heimat du bist wieder mein.".


VBR
Kirby

[stephen]

>>>>If the new Waco investigation gets too hot for him, he might react in Australia's favor.

Now there is a man with a keen political sense.

PS-I'll give you the verdict now and save everyone the trouble. The FBI, with military support, assaulted a group of innocent civilians who were exercising their freedom of religion and burned 81 people alive (if you include the ones they shot as they ran from the flames) and Bill, Janet and their cronies knew about it from day one. That's not a conspiracy theory. That's what happened.

"or prohibiting the free exercise thereof... the right of the people peaceably to assemble..."

The founding fathers would be so proud.

Andrew,
Brother, never fear...we aren't forgetting WHO are our friends and Allies, even though that pencil necked geek who fornicates in the Oval Office has. Have faith and Willie the Wiener will be gone in about a year. The American people temporarily got infested with the Dumb-ass and put him in office. Now they want to hammer on Bush for experimenting with drugs, when they let the liar in there that fed them the line of "I tried pot but never inhaled", it shows you what some people will accept. William the Warrior? More like William the Butt Pirate if you ask me. By the way both Waco and Ruby Ridge were clearly abuses of power by the FBI and the ATF. BUNCHA COWBOYS! Yes Stephen I think you're right, the Founding Fathers are probably turning in their graves right now. WE need another Teddy Roosevelt, who walks softly but carries a huge club.
VBR,
Jim

[Barrett]

Evidently Australia is not a significant contributor to the Klinton Kampaign, therefore little or no reciprocity may be expected. Beyond that, Stephen is dead spot-on about US military capabilities; we're WAAAAY overextended, especially in strategic reach. Our main airlift (the C-141 fleet) essentially used up its remaining fatigue life in Desert Shield/Storm and now we couldn't get there again without renting a bunch of jumbo jets from airlines. We cannot buy enough C-17s to make up the deficit. Sealift is in relatively better shape but it still needs upgrading. (BTW: the Republican-controlled congress bears part of the blame for this situation.)
There's also the consideration of treaty obligations. I don't know if SEATO is even still in effect, but presumably if so that would be the hook upon which to hang US assistance to Australia in the current flail.

Jim Ace;
I agree, they don't make them like Teddy anymore. Bully, Bully!!

Jeni

When your off to war you only find out who your friends are after the shooting starts.
During the Falklands war the Belgians (NATO Allies ha ha) refused to supply the British with small arms ammo. While nobody expected the Argentinians to sideline their Exocets, who thought the French would load and maintain them!! History shows that the U.S.A can usually be relied on to do the right thing in the end, for which most of the world should be gratefull.
The only exception to this seems to be it's ongoing support for Israel which I find difficult to understand.