Who shot down Guynemer in Sept. 1915...?

Soderbaum · 4 September 1999, 08:35 AM

I have seen that Guynemer was shot dowm for the
first time of "Seven" in September 1915. He was
reported to fell in No Mans Land, but was rescued
by french ground-troops.
For the first it seems that Guynemer was an Ace
also in meaning himself shot down, where the any more of this unfortunate category ?
But my ground question is can anyone give information of this incident such as date,time
and what aircraft he flew ??

Gunnar

PeterL · 4 September 1999, 08:28 PM

Gunnar, you will not be able to ascribe this victory to anyone I'm afraid, it was friendly fire. My French references and my recently aquired copy of "The Storks" are out on loan at the moment so I don't have precise date or details, but Guynemers SPAD sustained a direct hit from a French Anti-Aircraft
battery. Due to my innadequate translation skills I missed this when preparing my bio page and I really must amend it. In photographs the aircraft looks fairly badly damaged and apparently lost more than half it's wing fabric, but it was repared and is I beleive the example now on display at Le Bourget.

hope this helps

Peter L

Soderbaum · 4 September 1999, 11:26 PM

Peter
If Guynemer was flying over the Front area its
also a possibility that also German Flak fired
at him.
The German Flak Units claimed 4 French aircraft
this month... Did he really flew a Spad at this
time?
It would be worhful if someone can give a date for
this incident or a possible location..

Gunnar

PeterL · 5 September 1999, 12:06 AM

OOOOOOOOOPS!!!!!

I read September '16. I should have access to all my refs Thursday if no-one can solve this before then.

PeterL · 5 September 1999, 12:10 AM

For now I can say it was almost certainly a Morane L

Peter

Reinout · 5 September 1999, 10:16 PM

Peter L,

There is indeed a restored "Vieux Charles" Spad VII on display at the Le Bourget air museum. According to the museum, Guynemer downed 17 opponents in that plane.

The "Place des Invalides" has a uniform and some medals of Guynemer on display.

Kind regards,

Reinout

PeterL · 8 September 1999, 07:53 PM

Gunnar, well I got my references back, and now I remember why I was so vague about this in my web article. The exact date or circumstances are not mentioned in either the English or the French accounts I have. Both mention it so it probably happened, and it must be a Morane because Guynemer doesn't get his hands on a Nieuport X until October. Presumably Guerder was in the back seat.
Such detail as I have states that he was shot down "in combat with an enemy formation." You can speculate as well as I, probably better, but I think it unlikely at this date he was attacked by a group of scouts. Much more likely he was attacking a formation of two seaters, it also fits his M.O.

hope this helps, but I very much doubt it.

Peter L

PeterL · 8 September 1999, 10:10 PM

Gunnar, a thought. The web site of the French aviation magazine Icare lists back issues including a three part Guynemer biography. I tried ordering it myself but all I got was a note telling me I'd got my credit card number wrong so I gave up. Perhaps you might have more luck.

Peter L

Soderbaum · 9 September 1999, 06:09 AM

Thankyou Peter
for all assistance. Guynemer is personally my
favourit among the french Aces, and probably the
most popular Ace by the french people during the War...
He is worth all recognition he has been given,
and your Website is a good example of that..
Go on that Way..!
If you find the date later on send me an e-mail, and I can perhaps give information from the
German side of this incident..
VBR
Gunnar