Russian Aircraft Develpment

After having read of Grand Duke Aleksandr Mikhailovich's involvement with aviation in World War One I felt I needed to increase my
understanding of the Russian Airforce . You won't (I think) be surprised to learn that I can't find very much !!! The only aircraft
manufacturer from the Great War whom I can track down is Sikorski , and there immediately I get confused . I assume the current
Sikorsky company somehow evolved from this ? There were , as far as I can see , no Sikorski aircraft in the Soviet airforce of World
War Two . Added to that that the Polish premier was called Sikorski (any relation ?) I was hypothesizing that the original company
Sikorski had been based in Poland and after the break-up of the Russian Empire was no longer available to the Soviet Union . Is that
close to the truth ?

I am also confused by the wealth of Soviet aircraft makes . I am assuming that these are nemaed after their designers as under the Soviet
economy there would be no owners . Perhaps later certain factories became designated as 'Ilyushin' factories so the names survived the
death/retirement of the designers . Does this equate with the truth ?

Soviet companies of the Second World War which I have tracked down so far are Polikarpov , Ilyushin , Tupolev , Lavochkin ,
Yakovlev and Petlyakov . I know that the Yakovlev (Yak) aircraft were named after their designer Alexander Yakovlev and presume the
others were similarly named. Had any of these designers been involved in First World War aircraft design (as for example Heinkel had for
the Hansa-Brandenburg company in Germany) ?

I hope that someone has more information on the Russian WW1 aircraft especially - I have just learnt of the existence of a bomber called
the Iliya Muromez though my correspondent knew little of it specifically .

Best Regards

Jon'

P.S. Apologies that this is the same text as left at Trenches' a few days ago - I was advbised to try for better luck here !

John,

The Ilya Mouromets was, in fact, designed by Igor Sikorsky.

Sikorsky was born in Kiev and designed aircraft in Russia until he left in 1918. He then ended up in the United States, where he started the
'Sikorsky Aero Engineering Corporation in 1923.

The above was taken from Durkota, 'The Imperial Russian Air Service' which is an excellent overview of Russian military aviation up to 1918.
It is expensive, but if you are serious I suggest you find a copy.

I do not know if Igor Sikorsky was related to the Polish leader, but interestingly, there is (was?) a well known specialist in Polish history named Norman Davies... might you two be related?

VBR,

MDD

Back issues of "Over the Front" and "Cross and Cockade" I think have some articles on the IM series of bombers.

The Durkota book is good, especially for an overview of Russian aircraft companies, though it is bit thin on hard stats.

The US Military Attache Reports at the National Archives in Washington DC have some good stuff on the pre-war Russian AF, including a file on the Ilya Muromets. Sikorsky's own book _Story of the Winged S_ and N. K. Finne's _Igor Sikorsky: The Russian Years_ are also well worth the time to look at.

[Barrett]

While working with Dolfo Galland at Champlin Museum Press in the '80s I became acquainted with Sergei Sikorski, an accomplished gent. (He said his son had a dream job--delivering sailboats all over the world with a female crew. Puh-LEESE don't throw me in dat briar patch!) I believe the company has a good history dept in Connecticut but don't know particuars.
Soviet aircraft "companies" actually were design bureaus under the name of the founders, hence Yakovlev, Sukhoi, Tupelov, Mikoyan-Gurevich, etc. They were state owned and generally given specialties: Yak & MiG fighters, Tupelov bombers & transports, Sukhoi attack aircraft, etc. Some of the oldies such as Polikarpov and Lavochkin disappeared after WW II.

[rammjaeger]

The Russians had 7 aircraft factories in 1914 (source for all data: Gröhler) and increased this number to 12 in 1917. The most important factories were Anatra (Odessa), Lebedejew (Petersburg), The Russian-Baltic Waggon factory (Petersburg), Dux and Stschetinin. The Construction bureau of Sikorsky was founded in 1912 by the Russian-Baltic factory. One of the team members was N.N. Polikarpow.

The Russians produced 5607 aircraft in WWI and imported 1800 but the Russian industry could not cope with the engine production for their aircraft (1511 produced and 4000 imported).

Russian aircraft types (source Nowarra): Anatra/Anade/Anasal; Diell, Dekan; Iwanoff; Lebedeff "Albatros"; Mosea-Bistrizkij; Okhowsky "Torpedoe"; Porokowshikoff; Stschetinin M.5, M.9, M.11, M.16, M.23 and M.24; Sikorsky "Russkij Witjas" and "Ilya Mourometz" (different types).

Only one (or two?) of the latter were shot down. Lt.Wolff reported in an article in "Das Fliegerbuch" about his and his observers combat against the Giant (10 minutes air combat in 3000 m altitude). Wolffs aircraft got 70 hits but was able to bring the monster with its crew of four officers (armed with 3 MG) down on 25th September 1916.

Lwaotschkin died (I believe 1960) in one of the biggest catastrophes of the Soviet Rocket program when the a starting rocket hit the bunker. Dozens of people were killed (I remember one source saying 200).

The Soviets believed in the competition between different design bureaus. The resulting best product should be produced with all available power of the state economy. This idea should replace the market mechanism and establish a kind of "Socialist competition". The experience shows that some bureaus established a kind of monopoly on informal ways. E.g. the Tupolew-bombers were not always the best in the competitions but Tupolew had established better connections than his rivals. The successes of the young Yakowlew created a dangerous situation for Polikarpow who was losing his exclusive position in the late 30s and early 40s. A number of designers were send to prison and had to start there the design of the next aircraft generation but Yakowlew got an own sport car and 100,000 Rubel - an enormous amount of money for Russian conditions in this time and system.

So - I guess that helps.

Sincerely,

Hannes

Only one note:
M-5, M-9 etc. flying boats were designed by
Grigorovich, not Scsetinin.

Vladislav
www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Battlefield/7561/

[rammjaeger]

I admit I forgot to set a comma and to go on with the Grigorowitsch types.