aircraft in Dawn Patrol

[Vin]

Last night I watched the 1938 "Dawn Patrol" (David Niven, Basil Rathbone & Errol Flynn). It was supposed to be set in 1915 yet the RFC pilots were flying aircraft which looked like SE5a's (commenced operations in 1917). To my unpracticed eye, the 'planes were slightly different from each other. One looked a bit like a Nieuport 28. I did not recognise the German aircraft. Whatever, the aircraft were clearly post 1915. The theme in the film, the short life expectancy of RFC pilots, seemed to me to be more appropriate to 1917 - 1918. If I am correct, I wonder why the film makers styled it as occurring in 1915 and why they chose aircraft carrying twin machine guns on top of the nose and with a lewis gun mounted on the upper wing.

Any comments ?


Vin

[Kirby]

The problem could be one of several things. Poor or indifferent research. Lack of sufficient genuine aircraft from that period and not enough funds to build exact replicas. Possibly artistic license.

My guess is the first and the fact the producers and director probably banked on the viewers not having enough savvy to know the difference.

I think availability had something to do with it, which is why a Pfalz D XII was used in much of the filming as well as converted Standard aircraft, IIRC. Not sure how many original 1915 aircraft were available when Dawn Patrol was filmed.

I've found the "nobody'll notice" factor is often big in Hollywood films, with few a few noteable exceptions such as ANZACs, A Bridge Too Far, etc.)

[Barrett]

I used to live with one of The Dawn Patrol aircraft, the Champlin Museum's Pfalz D.XII. Doug Champlin also has the leather coat that Niven wore in the film.
Much of the aerial footage for the '38 film was extracted from the '30 version (forget who was iin it.) There were I-strut N.28s, Tommy Morse Scouts, Standards, and Travelairs ("Wichita Fokkers"). Nobody seems to know why the director insisted on making it 1915 when it'd have been just as easy to make it '17.
In context, TDP fit Hollywood's long-standing antiwar theme, but '38 was about the end of the line. Round Two began the next year, of course, and American film makers began producing up-beat patriotic fare like "Northwest Passage," "Yankee Doodle Dandy" and "Sgt York."
Speaking of Hollywood, I vaguely recall reading that actor Paul Lucas flew in the Austro-Hungarian Air Service. Any confirmation? Other Great War airmen in Tinseltown were William Wellman and Buddy Rogers.

[PeterL]

[center]

[PeterL]

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And here's the very Pfalz. Isn't she lovely? I feel another model coming on.

Has there ever been a truley accurate World War One flying film though? Even if Hollywood were to engage the very best technical advisors, yes, even if they were to cosult the aerodrome forum , the purse strings would still be the final arbiter. Personally I'm happy to enjoy the flying sequences, even those with Tiger-moths, and throw icecream at the screen during the towel scene.

VBR
Peter L

Barrett, are you sure that Buddy Rogers flew in WWI? I think he was a little young for that. He did fly as a ferry pilot in WWII. Other Great War flyers were actor Herbert Marshall (He actually lost both legs in combat but hid it well using artificials.) and producer Merian C. Cooper of King Kong fame.

Based on their ages, I think it's more likely that Richard Arlen had WWI experience; Rogers was only 14 when the war ended. ("Wings" director William Wellman flew in a French fighter escadrille in the winter of 1917, I believe.)

Barrett's correct about the aircraft in "Dawn Patrol" -- all of the aerial footage comes from the 1930 version of the film (which starred Richard Bathlemess and Douglas Fairbanks, Jr. if I recall correctly). It's important to note that even by 1930 there were few flyable WWI aircraft available. The Pfalz D-XII Barrett refers to and Peter pictures (in its movie garb) was not among them; the two D-XIIs in the movie were static ground props only. The Allied aircraft were a mix of Tommies (Thomas-Morse SB-4) and rebuilt Nieuport 28s (owned by a stunt pilot named Garland Lincoln). The best thing you can say about the flight sequences in the two "Wings" pix is the wonderful sound of Gnome and LeRhone rotaries firing up in some of the takeoff scenes.

I can't imagine why the "1915" title was used. The screenplay was written by another WWI flyer (though as near as I can learn, John Monk Saunders saw no combat duty; he seems to have been an instructor). I don't know if we'll ever know why the film wasn't set in 1917.

[Barrett]

Michael & Crew:

Right you are--Richard Arlen. Buddy Rogers did fly in "Wings" but he learned as a civilian.
Some genuine D.VIIs were flown in "Hell's Angels," including one with "Rittm von Richthofen" painted beneath the cockpit. I guess that's so the audience could ID The Baron's evil grin below those square-framed goggles.

[Vin]

I watched the film again over the weekend. Another puzzling element was the extraordinary damage that Errol Flynn was able to cause with the bombs his biplane was carrying. I imagine they would have been 200 lb coopers bombs. Was such damage as to blow up a substantial bridge possible with one such bomb ?