Making peace with Billy Bishop

[Richard_Schrader]

I have from time to time panned Billy Bishop. I have stated that I don't believe his victory claims, and that his VC raid never occured. I haven't changed my mind in these two areas, but in looking at the whole man, the whole Billy Bishop, I find a very special person.
Twice after the War Bishop found his self unemployed and broke. Both times he rallied and became more sucessful than before.
Before and during the second world war worked very hard to make sure that Canada had an air force that was ready to take on the task. In doing so he ruined his own health.
Billy Bishop was quite a man, and he earned the title of hero.

Richard this was a very nice note. I think it is the kind of message that really helps sooth some of the wounds that occur when some of our discussion threads get a little out of control.
I admire you stepping up and clearing the air on this subject.
I'm sure Al Lowe will appreicate your comments as well.

Bob Z.
Imperial Net Staff

[Barrett]

Richard raises a novel perspective with Bishop's postwar career. It's illuminating to read his 1930s treatise, "Winged Peace," in which (if I remember correctly) he advocates abolition of national air forces in favor of an international (League of Nations?) air arm to prevent individual countries from developing their own military aviation. How this scheme was to be implemented I don't think was addressed. Anybody who's read the book more recently than c. 1985 please feel free to correct me.

Richard,

Though I disagree with your assesment of Bishop's wartime career I think it is really nice that you can compliment Bishop on what you find rewarding about him. These men, being real men, have numerous personal, professional, political or social flaws. We could dwell on these for each of the Aces infinitum. It is nice to remember once in while that these men put it all on the line for their beliefs, overcoming incredible hardships and in many cases rising to the top of their "professions". Were they perfect? No. Did they lie ? Many I'm sure did. But before we cast doubt on their reputations we should remember what they did do.......and that we have to back our claims up with hard FACT, not speculation. Your post shows the usual class you bring to your postings! TOPS !
Best Wishes !
John G.

P.S. Thanks again for the extra Pfalz -just finished it - looks SHARP !

John,
We might also add to this list all the others who have had their reputations questioned without the hard facts necessary to historically re-evaluate them fairly. Many personages on this forum have taken hits, most not really proven to all forumites, and they are in need of a little recognition and reconstitution of what they did during, and after the war. Some are honorable, reputable...and yes, some not so. But also some rise above it all. None of us are perfect, and it is so easy to damm those who cannot defend themselves. It may pass that re-evaluations of claims, some or all, and if the community of historians agrees with that, then fine. Until that time, let's give them all a big salute!!!!
Terry

[Barrett]

Oops--in my posting about Bishop's peacetime book I forgot to include salutations to the appropriate Forumites on Canada Day: Aaron, Dan, Graham, Michael & Michael--with honorary recognition to Al, of course!

Sounds like you're damning him with faint praise to me. You don't believe his victory claims or that he carried out the VC raid. In other words, he was a liar and a faker. You're making peace with Billy on your own terms.

[Billy_Bishop]

I wasn't going to jump into this one, but I've decided to go ahead and add my (USD).02 worth.

Richard is entitled to his opinion. As is Paul Cowan, Jasta, and all the other doubters out there. BUT, I would like to point out that Richard at least sees that Bishop had a strength of character that pulled him through lean times between wars, and pushed him to the breaking point in the 2nd World War.

I have to ask the question, could a man such as this be the faker that he's been accused of being?

Would a man of this character do the things AFTER WWI that he is KNOWN to have accomplished?

For Richard, I ask this, you say you doubt his claims, and you don't think the raid of 2 June, 1917 took place. With regard to his claims, do you mean you doubt that some of them actually occured, or you doubt them all?

With regard to the raid, if you don't think he did the raid of 2 June, 1917, WHY do you think that King George V awarded him the Victoria Cross?

I'm just curious as to your opinion on this. I'm not trying to "call you on the carpet." And if you'd prefer to answer me via email, please do so.

VBR,

Al Lowe

[Michael]

Barrett,

Better late than never - I use the 'Net at work.

As Senior Canadian Officer (47) thanks for the good wishes.

I do have Winged Peace at home, but haven't read it thoroughly.

Unemployed and broke?
His wife was an Eaton, as in "Eaton's", Canada's largest department store.
You may be thinking of William Barker, who really was down on his luck asfter the war, and rebounded without his wife's money to help him out.