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1999 Closed threads from 1999 (read only)


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Old 18 June 1999, 02:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
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As noted in the Best Squadron thread, I've set aside all the things I didn't need to do anyway just to concentrate on more stats.
Two excellent articles in Cross & Cockade Journal (1975 and 83) itemized claims for allied balloons destroyed on the Western Front in 1917 and 1918, respectively. Credit is due Paul Chamberlain, Bill Bailey, and Patrick Browne who provided the data--I simply crunched their numbers. Figures do not reflect unsuccessful German attacks resulting in no victory claims.
A word of caution: the Germans probably bagged a few balloons more than noted here because the Belgian records are incomplete, or were at the time of publication. Any errors of addition, subtraction, or interpretation are mine alone.
In 1917 German pilots made about 190 claims for allied balloons, of which 111 were valid. They also got 8 balloons which evidently were not claimed (attacker shot down, didn't file claim, paperwork lost, etc) for a total of 119, or 63%. The busiest month in 1917 was April (27 destroyed) followed by August (20).
In 1918 some 408 claims were made, of which 332 were valid, for an accuracy rate of 81%. By far the busiest month was September with 81 valid and 16 invalid claims.
The two-year total is 451 (including balloons destroyed without claims) minus some 127 invalid claims equals 324 allied ballons known destroyed: 71.8%. My guesstimate was 75%. Am I good or what?
Somewhere I've seen the figures, but a few hundred allied (and German) balloons that were not destroyed never flew again because they were too extensively punctured to repair.
Please note that under most conditions, destruction of an observation balloon should be just about incontrovertible: a stationary target in a specific spot whose demise is usually spectacularly evident (big fireball in the sky). So, is it any wonder that claims for airplanes maneuvering rapidly in three dimensions are often 2-4-6 times beyond the actual results?
It'll be interesting to see if anyone publishes a similar list of allied claims for German balloons. How 'bout the Coppens-Luke Research Foundation?
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Old 18 June 1999, 10:25 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Hoeppner and Neumann reported 605 lost German balloons including 546 lost by aircraft and artillery fire (only some dozen). Additional 505 were "written off after damages". That could justify an Allied claim number between 900 and 1000 or a little bit more. Maybe some pilots on both sides speculated after there attacks that the balloon is worthless now and reported a destroyed balloon which was confirmed if the winched down and written off balloon was not visible again next day. (My speculation.)

September 1918 was really the month with the most air combat in WWI including also 132 lost German balloons. Interesting would be also a number of balloons lost after storm and bad weather. For example in May 1916 the Germans captured 15 Allied balloos after storms.

Can´t help you concerning the German balloon claims.
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Old 19 June 1999, 07:17 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Hannes: thanks for some interesting data. There's probably a short article in balloon "oops" stories, such as the Camel pilot who shot down a British balloon that was still moored, and I believe another RFC/RAF pilot collided with a balloon--which survived.
Scott: maybe there's sufficient interest in the subject to stash this esoterica in a separate category, maybe under FAQ?
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Old 21 June 1999, 01:58 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Barrett,

you are better than you were claiming!

You sentence should look so:
"The two-years total is 606 minus some 155 invalid claims equals 451 allied balloons known destroyed: 74,4%!!! Your guesstimate was 75%!!!

Congratulation!

Hannes
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Old 21 June 1999, 04:01 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Hannes: To be honest, I didn't count the balloons that were destroyed but not claimed. So apparently we're both right--me on the claims ratio and you on the results ratio!
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Old 22 June 1999, 03:34 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Various German sources reported a bit different, because of their base material. I have rather much information on German claims and losses. For expample losses(this does not include Marine Air Force and until mid 1917 not Bavarian Ballon units: 1914/15: Losses by allied flyers. 3 Losses by Artillery 10 Losses by wind/weather 17 Total 30 1916: Losses by flyers 37 losses by artillery 8 Losses by weather 11 Total 56 1917: losses by flyers 116 by artillery 20 by weather 32 Total 168 1918: by flyers 315 by artilery 37 by weather 49 Total 401 TotalWar: by flyers 471 by artillery 75 by weather 109 total 655 505 other ballons was during war so badly damaged that they was not used again.
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Old 22 June 1999, 03:50 AM   #7 (permalink)
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According to German Army Air Services claims in 1917, the best month was not April. It was August with 37 claims, followed by July with 34 and June with 33. The total for April was probably 29. The total for 1917 was about 244.
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Old 22 June 1999, 04:07 AM   #8 (permalink)
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The German Army Air monthly list claims 95 allied ballons in september 1918. The Nachrichtenblätters daily reports is summoned to 99, with 20 claims on 15 september alone. This seams to be figures for Western front.The German Army Air Service reported 103 losses(this does not include damaged and so on) The French Air Service reptorted claiming 62 German Ballons this month.
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Old 23 June 1999, 06:54 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Gunnar is right with 655 (instead of 605) destroyed balloons - I mixed it up. The number 132 for September came from Hoeppner but maybe he mixed this number up with the number of 130 parachuting balloon observers in the same month (also reported by Hoeppner in "Deutschlands Krieg in der Luft").

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