Heroism Vs. Foolhardiness

[mike_baram]

Fear might keep you alive.
Terror will probably get you killed.

I've heard it said that war is long periods of boredom punctuated by brief moments of sheer terror. While this may not be true for all wars, it is more the trend of modern day wars.
But I think that for pilots back in Dubya Dubya Wun, it really would depend on whether the combatant thought of himself as a warrior, or just a guy doing a nasty job. For a warrior there is no better way to die than to go out in a blaze of glory. For a guy just doing a nasty job, they will do their best to make it home alive. I dunno for sure, but the former holds true for the credo of a true 'warrior class' mentality.
Regards,
Jim 'ACE'

[stephen]

I'm convinced that guys who live on the edge don't think, for the most part, that they will get killed. To draw once again upon the auto racing/fighter pilot comparison, I quote A. J. Foyt:

"It ain't braggin' if you can do it."

I heard a shrink talking about race drivers once. He said that yes, they know of the danger and they know they can be hurt, but they don't consider that it might happen to them because they simply believe that they're too good at what they do. Its the highest possible level of confidence - to play a game with stakes so high that losing means dying... and to drive (or fly) with such skill that you know you won't get hurt.

Think about what Foyt was saying. He was not boasting and that was not a flippant retort. That's what he honestly believed. A thoughtful consideration of that quote might go a long way toward putting us inside the minds of the Frank Lukes, A J Foyts and Evel Knievels of the world.

I recently stood once again on the fields just south of Gettysburg Pennsylvania where 51000 men fell killed or wounded in a 3 day period in the summer of 1863. These men faced massed rifle and cannon fire. They fought using obsolete tactic designed for the smooth bore muskets of an earlier generation, because that was how their leaders were trained. They were brave men, dedicated to their various causes. I would not call their actions foolhardy, as I have more respect for them than that.

As I have previously stated, combat in a linen covered open cockpit biplane was cold, loud and highly deadly. These men served their countries in full knowledge that the deck was stacked against them. Operational casualties due to accidents were unacceptable high by the standards of today. The airplanes were little frail things. A boy with an icepick could cause irrepairable damage to a SPAD in seconds, and that was one of the STRONGER machines. The risk of enemy action was huge. I would not like to think that these men were fools. I've never had to face those risks in my life, I've been lucky.

Tom

Stephen,
Perhaps it could best be summed up in the words of Russel Crowe's character in 'Gladiator'. This was prior to a battle scene while he was leading the Roman Army.

General Maximus - " What does it matter if you die today? What we do here with our death, will live in eternity."

Regards,
Jim'ACE'

>>And it's not for the sake of a ribboned coat,
Or the selfish hope of a season's fame,
But his Captain's hand on his shoulder smote
"Play up! play up! and play the game!"

Reread Robert Graves' "Goodbye to All That" if you still have doubts.<<

DULCE ET DECORUM EST PRO PATRIA MORI.

Regards, John.

Sorry guys, if you haven't heard that before just type it into Alta Vista in " marks.
Regards, John.

I just wanted to state that Barker was not foolhardy in his last action of WWI. He did not "Jump" all those fokkers, the fokkers jumped him after he jumped a 2-seater.

He was actually quite embarrassed about the whole thing.

[Wayne Ralph]

In reading the letters of WWI flyers and soldiers, it is not uncommon to find young men expressing the hope that they might win a medal or two, especially the Victoria Cross. The desire of 19th century men to live up to a noble ideal, to honour their country and their family, often overwhelmed their instincts for survival. The value system of the WWI generation is far, far removed from that of our present day, so actions that might seem to us as reckless, in that era would have been seen as sporting, valiant, and noble. Barker did not set out to win the Victoria Cross, but he was certainly proud of the other decorations he had been awarded, and made sure that his family took equal pride in his heroic achievements. Stewart Taylor has always claimed that no generation of men was braver than those who fought in the air in the Great War, that for sheer devil-take-the-hindmost courage they stand alone in the 20th Century.

Ralph,
Although there is evidence to support your views, I suspect any desire to cover oneself in glory evaporated rather quickly after arriving at the front. I recall a RFC veteran interviewed in a newspaper saying that everyone drank and smoked so much because ther were almost permanently scared. Few combatants would have wanted to do anything to stain the honour of their country or their regiment but that is different from actively seeking fame and prestige. When Wellington said the battle of Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton, he was talking crap. Like WWI, it was won by desparate men in desparate circumstances.
Regards, John.