MvR Ghost Photo

[Darryl]

Hi Jim,

I would be inclined to believe you, but later at St Bartleby The Flatulent's High School, Brother Typhus repeated the lesson. He was quite sure she had run from a book suppository and let's face it, wouldn't you?

very best regards

Darryl

...indeed, the Red Baron was seen by British fighters during WW2!

One more fact that escaped me earlier: When using orthochromatic film, such as was universal in WW-I, in that it was insensitive to red, anyone dressed in red would take on a ghostly appeaarance, like the left hand figure in the photo. The priest was obviously dressed in white. So, your "ghostly figure" was either a cleric or a cardinal. Hardly a paranormal figure. Cancel that call to the X files, and some of you guys had better re-read Paul Carisella's book on the death of MvR.
Somebody forgot to mention that the "ghostly figure" could have been the spirit of Christmas Past, pointing a bony finger at the Slaughtermeister.

NEWS FLASH! This combat report from April, 1918 just arrived. Irma LaDouche's Flying Bidet Escadrille claims credit for downing the Red Baron.
The rest of the rreport is somewhat garbled, but sounds like a broken governor, a runaway engine on the well pump and WHEE!

Let's not BICKER and ARGUE about whom killed who...

That's odd! I thought this forum was a place where issues of WW-I aces and aircraft were discussed. Are you saying it is a place where everybody has to agree? I think that would defeat the purpose of the forum, which is to examine things that come to light and alternative possibilities.

[Graeme]

Jon L

Carisella is not the only author to have penned a credible version of events. Before you discard everyone else's beliefs, you might care to read the article "The Final Dogfight of The Red Baron" that appeared in "Over The Front" Vol 1 No 4. Written by Walter V Powell JD PhD, it confirms that Wop May (who was actually there) was in no doubt that Brown had brough down MvR; it also confirms that Brown wrote to his father and in that letter claimed to have brought down MvR.

Powell was also one of the first authors to quote the suggestion of a heart specialist that the wound suffered by MvR was not necessarily instantly fatal and in the circumstances Brown may well have been three miles away when the Triplane crashed.

That the British, ie the RAF, gave credit to Brown is confirmed in the citation for the Bar to his Distinguished Service Cross: "For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty. On the 21st April, 1918, while leading a patrol of six scouts he attacked a formation of twenty hostile scouts. He personally engaged two Fokker triplanes, which he drove off; then, seeing that one of our machines was being attacked and apparently hard pressed, he dived on the hostile scout, firing the while. This scout, a Fokker triplane, nose dived and crashed to the ground. Since the award of the Distinguished Service Cross he has destroyed several other enemy aircraft and has shown great dash and enterprise in attacking enemy troops from low altitudes despite heavy anti-aircraft fire."

And if his Combat Report is not a claim for the victory, what is?

VBR Graeme

Well John I was just kidding...quoting monty python, because you de-railed this topic to a whodunnit thread.

As for if Brown thinking he shot down MvR, he most certainly did!

"Dived on large formation of 15 - 20 Albatross Scouts[,] D 5's and Fokker triplanes, two of which got on my tail and I came out. Went back again and dived on pure red triplane which was firing on Lieut. May. I got a long burst into him and he went down vertical and was observed to crash by Lieut. Mellersh and Lieut[.] May. I fired on two more but did not get them." - Brown's second combat report, 21 April 1918"

"If he had been my dearest friend, I could not have felt greater sorrow." Roy Brown, on viewing the body of Manfred von Richthofen

He is also said to have been very remorseful of "Killing" MvR. That's why he didn't like to talk about it.

I'm not even saying he DID do it (i'm not convinced either way) though if he could read the forum these days it would do his conscience some good since no one thinks he did it.

Good, fine, no one really cares anymore i don't think.

The above description is flawed. Brown did not "drive off" any German scouts. Eye witnesses (Carisella was the only one ever to look them up and get statements) saw NO other aeroplanes besides the Camel and the DRI. The crash was many miles from the place where the dogfight was still in progress. Brown, by his own admission, broke off engagement at the river's edge, due to acute gastritis, and streaked for his home aerodrome.
You can make up anything you want to believe, and most do, but it can't change the facts. Carisella's narrative was carefully reviewed by Cross and Cockade members some 40 years ago, and the basic facts were confirmed. No cardiologist would make a stupid statement like that. The shot blew out his heart. That gave him a 5 second maximum life expectancy. He was observed by several witnesses to convulse after he threw his goggles over the side. None of your stated sources did any real research. Copying what somebody else speculates is not research, it is called jumping to unwarranted conclusions.

John you should:

A) Go look in forum archives, where this has been poured over countless times.

B) Open a new thread and get your rocks off. I suggest being less hostile.