How many times was MvR shot down?

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Gentlemen:
The question is How many times was MvR shot down.
The winner, my choice will receive a colored drawing. Times, places, dates, what was he flying/ all that stuff.
Dan-San Abbott

Dan-San;
I say three times. Feb, 1917; Jul.1917, and Apr. 1918.
Richard

[Ron_F]

DSA,
8 Mar 1917. , Jasta 11, hit by Fe8 of 40 Sqnd.
Flying a factory fresh DIII, landed probably near Oppy, west of Douai. since that was the patrol area.

July 6, 1917. wounded. Albatros DV, serial unknown. crash landed near Wericq after encounter with Fe2ds of 20 Sqnd.

21 April 1918. killed in 425/17. groundfire. credit is still with Capt Brown of 209th Sqdn. 1145 am German time. along Somme river from Sailly le sec to Vaux sur Somme.

Sources:
The Red Baron Combat wing,
Richthofen,
Richthofen, beyond the legend
Above the Lines

Ron

[Darryl]

Hello Dan-San,

All I could add to RonF's post is that MvR was probably flying his usual DV 1177/17 on 6th July 1917,when wounded and that he had been shot down as an Observer in 1916.

In late July or early August 1916 he was flying with von Holck (and Von Holck's dog!!) near Wicznice on the Eastern Front when they flew through the smoke above the town. Being spun down several hundred feet Von Holck recovered but the engine was giving trouble. They were then fired at by Russian machine gunners and reportedly hit, the engine gave out and they barely glided far enough to crash land in a small clear patch and bolt into some trees. They were rescued by none other than the Kaiser's second son, Prince Eitel, who loaned them horses to ride back to base.
The dog survived the crash but is still AWOL.

regards

Darryl

concerning the March 1917 downing, which I believe occured on the 9th, RFC 40 pilot H.C. Todd reported that the enemy machine he shot off the tail of a squadron-mate "retired eastward". It would seem that no credit was awarded for this 'victory', suggesting at least one instance where the liberal British scoring system missed a credit deserved by one of its pilots. It is _possible_ that a fair number of other credited British victories had similar endings, i.e., where the 'defeated' German landed within his own lines as a result of an encounter with the enemy, but where the pilot was either unwounded or suffered only a minor wound, and where no documentation was recorded by the Germans.

[Graeme]

Mark

The action on 9 March 1917 is described in RFC Communique No. 78 as follows:

"Nine FE8s of 40 Squadron, whilst patrolling over Oppy in the morning, were unusually heavily fired at by anti-aircraft guns for about five minutes. Two hostile aircraft appeared well to the east of the patrol. The anti-aircraft fire suddenly stopped and eight or more hostile machines dived from above the clouds onto the FE patrol. Apparently the two machines, the anti-aircraft and the formation of hostile aircraft were working in accordance with a pre-arranged plan. In the combat that ensued at least one hostile machine was destroyed. Three of our machines failed to return and the remainder were badly shot about. One FE just succeeded in reaching our lines when it burst into flames. The pilot, who had been twice wounded, jumped from the machine. The fight lasted for about half an hour."

It seems that Todd's claim, the only one made that day, became an Albatros scout out of control east of Lens at 09:25 (British time) while flying FE8 6425. This was then upgraded to destroyed in the Communique.

As usual, the truth lies between the two extremes.

VBR Graeme

[Ron_F]

Correction,
It was 9 Mar 1917, i missed the first few words in Kilduffs book stating ' The following day,' so i assumed it was still 8 March instead of 9 March. Which is when he got #25 victory over a DH2 of No 29 sqdn at 1155am or so.

Ron F.

[Darryl]

Hi all,

In my previous post read late July early
August 1915, NOT 1916, dunno why they put those damn keys so close together!!.

regards

Darryl

[Rick]

I think you can only count three serious times that MvR was shot down.

1st: 9Mar17, FTL, shot up fuel tank, 10.30 hours, Henin-Lietard, Albatros D.III (S/N unknown).

2nd: 6Jul17, WIA, 11.30 hours, near Wervicq, Albatros D.V 1177/17.

3rd: 21Apr18, KIA, 11.45 hours, Vaux-sur-Somme, Fokker Dr.I 425/17.

Additionally he was WIA on 4Sep15 flying with Zeumer in KG 1 near Ostend, but not SHOT down. Downed with Holck (as mentioned), but not SHOT down. And he crashed Fokker Dr.I 114/17 on 30Oct17 in landing trying to help Lothar who had been forced to land with engine trouble (incidentely MvR destroyed 114/17 in this landing), but again, not SHOT down.

Rick

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Rick and Ron.F
I am sending you both a colored drawing. Specify your choice in aircraft. Give me two choices and and I'll try to comply with your wish. Rick answered specifically every part of my question. Ron F., you were the first to answer the main parts so I am going to consider you also a winner.
My thanks to everyone who participated. Please e-mail me you mailing addresses. Thank you.
blue skies,
Dan-San Abbott