Composition of MvR's Circus

[stevedrew]

Dear Forum,

I was wondering about the USUAL composition of Manfred von Richthofen's Flying Circus. The RNAS Squadrons were pitted against this formidable group of fighters, and were frequently outnumbered, but rarely outclassed. Robert Little willingly engaged a flight of eleven of the famous "Circus" alone, despite the fact that these pilots were hand-picked from all the other units on all fronts. Pretty gutsy effort!
I have read that Richthofen's Jasta usually flew with between 10 and 16 aircraft, which certainly outnumbered the usual 6 of the RNAS/RFC.
Was this usual for the Jasta? Did all their available aircraft participate in their sorties or did they operate in "flights" of 6 as did the English?

Steve Drew

[Shooter]

Steve:

Don't know about the "hand picked" part for sure. My info on the replacement practices of the German air service is sketchy (all of my reference material went up in smoke, so I cannot come up with any supporting data) but my memory says that replacements sent to Jasta 11 would have been pretty much the same as those going to the other outfits. Of course, when they originally formed up the plank-holders might have been "hand picked," and accomplished drivers I suppose were sometimes asked to join by the Rittmeister (I think that is how Wolff came to Jasta 11). . .

As far as the numbers, I believe that the TE of a Jasta allowed for a maximum of fourteen line a/c, and few ever achieved that strength. I believe the average was 9-10. Being an "elite" unit, Jasta 11 may have been kept at full strength, but with the normal number of a/c dead-lined for maintenance, even a full strength Jasta would normally only put up 7-9 a/c for flight duty on any given day.

Like I said before, my info IS sketchy. Maybe someone else might have better sources than those I currently have.


Shooter sends

with the early 1917 success of MvR and his new squadron, J11 became the most prestigous German fighter unit. With his growing stature, MvR was able to request and receive just about any individual pilot he desired. This is related by Kilduff in 'The Red Baron Combat Wing'. Incidently, Kurt Wolff was an original member of J11. He was already in the unit when von Richthofen took over its command in Jan 1917. After winning the PlM and being given command of J29, and shortly after the death of Allmenröder, Wolff was asked by MvR to join the newly formed JG1 as commander of J11, an offer he accepted.

As to the number of planes, I believe that it was originally 10 or 12 and later expanded to 15 or 16. With the creation of the JG, as many as sixty planes were under Richthofen's command. I would guess that circumstances dictated the number of planes in the air at any one time. Shortly after the formation of the JG in June, MvR had constant disagreement over flight scheduling with his immediate superior, Hauptmann Bufe. When Bufe ordered large flights, MvR argued for small ones and vice versa. In July or August, Bufe was ordered to a different German army, and MvR was allowed to dictate his own flight schedules.

[rammjaeger]

The (changing) number of airplanes in squadrons is not necessarly correlating with the number of pilots. Bodenschatz reported 44 names for JG 1 on 1. March 1918. Thats is an average of 11 per squadron inluding MvR - but not all pilots were flying every mission! I have seen often 8 pilots or less pilots in action. Also missions with only half squadron strength were flown. I think not that MvR had the necessarly time to pick up all of his pilots himself. JG 1 and also Jasta 11 were not all-aces-squadrons. Two or three high-scorers flew together with less successful pilots. When JG 1 was founded the quality of one squadron was bad, the quality of another one middle-class and only two were of better quality.
When LvR reported about the circumstances of Löwenhardts death in an article he was blaming the inexperienced pilots of Jasta 10 for the loss.

Also JG 1 had its share of quite "normal" pilots!

The original quality of J11 when Richthofen took over was not so great either.. Richthofen initially took over a unit that had not scored a single victory in months, and pilots like Wolff were already a part of that unit.

Once Richthofen came on board pilots like Wolff started becoming aces.

regards,

MDD

[Ron_F]

After looking at Kilduff book on the fateful day he died(easier to do than the whole book..) 5 were in his flight that day. i believe, and agree, maintenance allowing, that anywheres from 3-6 or more were a norm for a kette to go on patrol.

As per Hannes post, roughly 10 pilots per jasta, with Jasta 10 having 12 or so pilots available in March. von Richthofens flying circus, by Nowarra.

fwiw,
Ron

I seem to remember seeing that MvR was quick to post pilots who did not meet his standard. So while he may not have had control over who came in he had the power to speed their passing!!

andy

Andy, really? Germany and MvR could afford to
"get rid" of pilots? --for the sake of the Jasta?
BTW, Ernst Udet felt himself to have been
selected by MvR to join the circus.

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Steve:
The official alloted strength of a Jagdstaffel was 14 aircraft and 4 spares plus 3 more held at the Armee Flugpark and 14 pilot including the JastaFuhrer( sorry about thr umlaut). However this was seldom met. I would say the strength was more likely 12 on hand with 8 or 9 serviceableat any time due to maintenance, bad landings and combat damage. The pilot strength was probably an average of 11-12 and this was reduced by leaves and injuries to probably 8-9.
MvR was unlike other Jasta and JG leaders who would develope pilots into leaders and they would become JastaFuhrer in another Jasta. Jasta B is a classic example of developing leaders. In the case of Ltn.Ernst Udet who at the time was the Fuhrer of Jasta 37 was solicitated by MvR who drove to Le Cateau Airfield, I believe on the 15 of March 1918 and asked Udet to join Jasta 11 as a pilot! He brought them in and developed them within JG Nr.1, If they didn't cut the mustard they were transferred out. Read Jan Hayzlett's translation in Chapter Three. track names coming
in, with no victories see how soon they left. There are no explanations. He expected you to perform, if you did not, you were gone. Also you will find only a few enlisted pilots. Voss was another example of a selected performer brought in There are many examples. MvR wrote in his command and operations piece that the size of flight should not be more than six in order to control the flight.
Dan-San Abbott

[rammjaeger]

Steve,

I forgot the date but the alloted strength of the Jastas was later increased from 14 to 16 airplanes but in fact you can find often documents with sentences like "We should have at least ten serviceable aircraft in the squadron!".

Another remark: Also the so-called O.z.b.V. (Offizier zur besonderen Verwendung; officer for special duties) counted like the Jasta-Führer among the before mentioned "14 pilots" (but did not always fly).