Frey on Luke at Murvaux

Royal Frey, writing in the Journal of The American Aviation Historical Society, Fall Issue, 1972, (Vol. 17, #3) reported on his findings re the final moments of Lt. Frank Luke. Frey visited Murvaux in 1962 while on active duty in the USAF. He, later, was eminent as curator of the Air Force Museum.
His research supports the premise that Luke died as a fesult of the single wound inflicted by groundfire while in flight and not as a result of action on the ground: In Frey's words: "Now I hate to change fact to fable, but whenever you read that Luke fired at German troops and the returned the fire, killing him, remember that it is not true."
One photograph taken by Frey indicates that the village of Murvaux is barely discernible in the distance- with relative regard to the spot where the SPAD descended. There is probably no way- if Frey's photos are representative- that a resident of the village could ascertain what was occurring at the remote scene of Lt. Lukes death.
Furthermore, there is a photo of a marker erected in memory of Luke by the USAF 338th Fighter-bomber Wing in 1957. (The plaque has, I understand, subsequently has been stolen from it's base). The monument, somewhere near the solitary building in the area, the distinctly white"Maisonette" ("little house") on the road west of Murvaux, refers to the fatal scene as being "700 yards north" of the monument.
The scale of the photograped terrain would suggest if the monument was 700 yards south of the scene of the descent, then Murvaux is probably 2000-2500 yards easterly of that area.
From that remoteness the villagers would hear little, see nothing and depend for details of the incident, I'd surmise, solely upon the hearsay of the German soldiery.
Frey consulted Dr. Brian Flanagan (himself, an eminent historical authority- as well as a M.D. at Wright Patterson AFB)on the wound (found in Luke's torso, I add, by the Graves Registration investigator in Jan. 1919)and was advised that the round "entering the front of the chest and coming out the back", would cause an individual to "drown in his own blood in five to ten minutes as his lungs filled with blood."
Frey posits that Luke fire a round at German soldiers but was dead before they located the source of the shot. No French would have seen this incident so remote from the town. If it occured it must have been re-told by Germans on the scene. The shot could also have been an attempt to summon aid of course. Luke's all consuming bravery in wreaking havoc with the the German balloon organizations makes him worthy of our nation's highest award. A coda to his life insisting on a "death before surrender" shootout is a scripting completely inconsistent with the findings of the well-done Frey (and Carasella) research using German as well as French informants.
Frey has a touching photo of the Murvaux resident, Hervieux, standing on the exact spot where, as a young boy, he had came out in a cart with his father to recover Luke's body. Sadly, the steepness of the banks suggest that Luke could not have descended into the stream to find any solace in that last comforting drink he probably was seeking in those final moments of his life.
There are other interesting comments by Frey, ie. via the courtesy of P.J. Carasella, he was able to communicate on several occasions with a German Balloon Company officer, Engels, present in Murvaux on the occasion of the incident and who, (contrary to French citizenry reports) asserts that he conducted appropriate burial services for the American casualty. The article also offers surprising conclusions on the death of Raoul Lufbery as well. A comprehensive map of sites of interest to persons studying the USAS activiteies in '17-18 accompanies the article.
The AAHS is worth of everyone's support and they can be reached at 2333 Otis St. Santa Ana, Calif. 92704. Regards, Lee

[stephen]

Good morning, Lee:

Frey's report is indeed a critical element in the total body of evidence available on Luke's last flight. The comments you made are based not on the Frey report itself, but rather in the subsequent series of articles he published from that report which has been missing for over two decades. I am now in the process of procuring the original, entire Frey report (not his later articles) and hope to find more information therein.

I have been to Murvaux on multiple occasions to research Luke's death. I have walked 700 yards from the monument off the D102, through the farmer's field and into the sheep pasture. I have personally stood on the spot where Hervieux's photo was taken in the weeds next to the stream, I have canvassed the area with photos, examined the slopes of the Cote St. Germain and the hills behind the church where German AA fire was based. I can assure you, first hand, beyond the slightest doubt, that Luke's approach, landing, and subsequent actions were indeed in full view of the entire western edge of the village, the church, anyone on the road from Doulcon approaching Murvaux, and anyone on the hill on either side of the town itself. In fact, the area into which Luke decended was lower than much of the surrounding countryside, and the Cote St. Germain forms a bowl shape around the spot of his death, permitting anyone in the immediate area to get a football arena-like view of the proceedings, with gunfire and engine sounds being clearly audible. This alone does not validate anything anyone might claim to witness, but it does make testimony possible. The only thing that might have hampered visibility in any way was darkness. As I'm sure you know, it was dusk when Luke went down.

Also, the number of shots that Luke fired is not known. It was at least one and likely several shots, and it is known based on witnesses in BOTH affidavits that he fired specifically at the Germans, not into the air in an attempt to "get help."

Many people have attempted to make the affidavits contradict one another, but except in minor details they do not. Taken together, they form an excellent picture of precisely what happened in Frank Luke's final moments. There are of course still some mysteries, but the basics are known. Luke was shot down, and he did, by all affidavits from all known witnesses, choose to fire on his enemies rather than be captured. And yes, it is quite possible that he died from the wound received in the air; it is also possible that the Germans did not return fire on the ground at all, but these speculations have no evidence for or against them based on the testimony of witnesses.

[stephen]

On my second trip to Murvaux in 1998, I took some photos of Murvaux and the spot of Frank's death that are posted on this forum, on the lower right hand side bar, in an article called "Traveling the Western Front." Please punch up that article and examine the second-from-bottom photo (standing at memorial looking back toward Murvaux on the D102) and the bottom photo (the field where Luke earned his Medal of Honor). Both of these photos were taken from the foot of Luke's monument on the D102.

The first photo shows the distance between Luke's monument and the western edge of Murvaux - and yes, the buildings in the foreground were there in 1918. Since Luke crashed adjacent to the monument but 700 yards south, his actual crash site would be slightly - by perhaps 100 or 200 yards - greater than that shown in this photo. But the buildings, shrubbery by the houses, cars, even the window in the roof of the church steeple are clearly visible. If someone had been standing in the church steeple, which is considerably farther away and in the center of town, they would have been visible in this photo.

Next, look at the bottom photo of the stream and field where Luke died. There are 3 sheep in the center of the photo, two on top and one below them. The spot where Luke landed is just to the left of the sheep on the bottom. A sheep is about half the mass of a grown man, and you can plainly see all the sheep on the slope of the Cote St. Germain in this photo. The estimate of nearly 2500 yards between Luke's landing site and the town is more than double the actual distance, which was more like 800-1400 yards (about a kilometer). I have yet to measure it precisely, but that's on my to-do list when I return there again in November.

When reviewing these photos, please remember that they were taken in the late afternoon, under extremely hazy and cloudy conditions, with a poor quality camera (not 35mm), and subsequently went through development, copying and scanning prior to being posted on the web. My vision when standing upon that spot was considerably better, even including the poor visibility of the day.

Frank Luke died in full view of the town of Murvaux.

[Vin]

You can lead a donkey to water but you cannot make it drink.


Vin

Greetings Lee Branch:
1. I have a xerox copy of that Frey Article. It was such a poor copy that I could not make out that 'maisonette.' That was the place at which townsmen we cutting trees under German 'supervision.' I went to Wright-Patterson to see their research on Luke, but for all their 15 million pages, all they showed me was a beat up, faded version of that Frey article. I knnew that Frey had been a curator because I saw a bench in the memorial park with his name on it, and I assumed that all his research material would be lagered at W-P, my contact there said he had no papers at all. I asked about Frey's widow and was told that she was still alive. When I asked for her address, I was refused.
To follow through, I wrote the folks at AAHS (of which I was then a member) to ask: Where was the camera ready copy on wich the Frey article was written, only to be told that it was lagered in Santa Monica, but that they would not retrieve it for me.
Now I went to Murvaux in 1996 and spoke to the mayor, Serge Colin, who took me int the town hall and gave me a photo of the monument at Murvaux, which I inserted in Rampage (p159). Serge said his uncle presided over the installation.
Now Lee, this monument is actually a wayside cross at the entrance to the town, which is in all truth about two or three blocks long. The church is near the end of the town,with a small walled cemetery opposite the entry to to the church. Beyond the church is a long meadow which is bordered by the Milly creek which runs parallel to the road out of town. What you see in that small black and white is the spot where Luke's plane landed 700 yards or 2/5th mile from the cross. The water in the creek is accessible, although the B/W small inset of M. Hervieux at the spot gives the impression of being steep, it is not, nor it very deep. THe nnext thing to remember is that during that war, Murvaux was behind the Hindenburg line, and it was a suplly depot for the German army. The town was very small with a small population: if there were a 100 people in it, at the time, you'd be lucky. The people in the town were Alsatiens, who considered themselves as an occupied nation an nnneither French or German, although a reading of the stones in the cemetery there is a mixture of French and German names. Mayor Colin could speak German, but not English, and he had blond hair and blue eyes, depite his French name. He had no records on Luke, because all records are sent to Bar-le-duc for storage.
The 1962 affidavit in September Rampage was made by Frey who was stationed at Etain, near Verdun. The death wound is described in that affidavit as a wound that entered under the right armpit and exited under the left shoulder blade. What puzzled me was the fact with a penetrating wound like that describe (30mm in; 37mm out) that he had any blood (or consciousness left by the time he landed. But the affidavit says that he craweled 75 yards to the creek, draining blood, which the arriving Germans followed ten minutes after Luke landed.
It was only when I read a Civil War surgeons manual on chest wounds, that it became clear: that manual described what was called a peripheral chest wound in which the bullet appears to enter the chest, but is actually deflected by ribs and travels around the chest cavity under the skin and exits, say when it hits a shouilder blade, and it appears like a death wound. This kind of a wound would permit Luke to land, climb out of the cockpit and move to the creek.
My answer to the reports of gunfire: Murvaux was not a quiet place. There was constant artillery and machine gun fire from both sides, as the American lines moved up the Meuse river abreast of Dun and Murvaux. Even if Frank didn't or couldn't fire a shot his intentions were good, and he had already done more than his duty (without the support of his squadron) and his deeds deserve more consideration and research than whether or not-as he was dieing-he could shoot at Germans he could not even see, as it was an early night in those hills on 29 September.
Lee, do you have any documents on Carisella's interview of Engels?
VBRs from Billy H. 09/15/00.

Greetings Stephen:
Murvaux was a pretty peaceful place when I visited it (although it rained like hell) and I imagine when you went there.
But when Frank got shot down there was a million man push going, and the front was awash in continuous noise, especially as our line came abreast Dun and Murvaux. In that hill country the sound of battle echos and re-echos from Cote St Germaine to Cote Jumont, and where the sound comes from could be anybody's guess. Those folks in the affidavit heard lots of battle noises coming from everywhere, including from Luke's position. But what Frey did not do was ask those witnesses:"Exactly where were you when you heard those shots?" Where you with the wood detail at the Maisonette? (Have you a picture of the Maisonette?)
What I'm trying to say is don't put too fine a point on the incident of the shootout: That's not the defining moment of his life.
The affidavits olny mention the moevment of Luke in the two wheeled cart to the grave outside of the walled cemetery, where he was buried in the grave of a German soldier whose body was rrreturned to Germany.
Nowhere is there any mention of the Germans Luke was supposed to have strafed at the church. Wouldn't the Germans have policied those bodies and removed the wounded to the Feld Lazarett?
When you went to the top of St Germaine, did you find any thing that looked like a gun emplacement, or old shell casings, etc? And could you see the crash site from that hill?
Where do you stay when you go to Murvaux?
WKRs Billy H 09/16/00.

[stephen]

Billy:

First of all, I understand where you are coming from but I am not putting too fine a point on Luke's final moments. I am only reiterating what both affidavits clearly stated. The second affidavit stated that Luke fired on the approaching Germans as a final act of defiance; the first affidavit says he drew his gun when the Germans approached in order to defend himself. I have not speculated in any way. I only observe what the witnesses testified.

You seem to have interpreted the affidavits as having been based only on what the witnesses heard, not what they saw. However, both affidavits contain visual information that could only be verified by an eyewitness - someone who physically saw the events in question. And there is nothing in either affidavit to indicate that the testimonies were based on audible sounds alone. I'm afraid that is latter day revisionism at work and has no basis in the words of those who were there.

The second affidavit clarifies the first by indicating that it was another Allied pilot who strafed German soldiers at the church several hours earlier. Unless someone can come up with evidence to the contrary, that has to be treated as a separate event entirely not involving Luke.

>>>>> When you went to the top of St Germaine, did you find any thing that looked like a gun emplacement, or old shell casings, etc?

That's a November project. I've never been farther south than the middle of the sheep pasture, which is less than halfway up the Cote St. Germain, so I didn't get to the top of the south side. I did, however, do quite a bit of hiking high up on the hill behind the church (there are scattered buildings up there, you know) and through the graveyard. I did not see any surviving gun emplacements, though that's a lot of ground to cover by one person in a few hours.

>>>And could you see the crash site from that hill?

From behind the church? Yes, absolutely. Of course, from some angles trees, etc., are in the way, but from the standpoint of distance and landscape, yes. But remember, the church really has nothing to do with the Luke saga (reference the mention above of the strafing).

>>>> Where do you stay when you go to Murvaux?

Different places. I've stayed at a budget hotel in Verdun, which is actually closer than you think (can't remember the name, but it had wierd bunk beds and a green sign out front). Verdun is only half an hour's drive or so south of Murvaux. They even have a McDonald's. Woo-hoo. I've also stayed at a lovely little bed and breakfast, the Senlis home, in Duisans, which is just outside of Cambrai (but a considerably longer drive). And also at the Au Cheval Blanc hotel on the German border northeast of Montmedy in Neidersteinbach, which I enthusiastically recommend if you don't mind the drive. But Verdun to the south or Stenay to the north are the easiest and closest places to get budget or chain hotels.

[Chris_Tydlacka]

Has any one been able to see the actual coroners report on Lukes body? I am interested in finding out the specifics on the entry and exit wounds. I read a book on WW1 aces a while back and the author stated that after Luke saw his best friend die in flames while in a fierce dog fight. He said that Luke lost all regard for his own life nd lived for revenge. I would probably do the same. Are these acounts true?

Steve: The fine point I'm referring to is the amount of time spent on whether or not Luke fired his .45. All I was asking anyone to do was consider that Frey did not get the witnesses to state where they were when this occurrence took place (I spent eight years as an investigator for an insurance company, and the first thing you put in a witness affidavit is to have the witness state where he was when he saw what he saw; then to go to the scene to verify that what he saw could be seen from that location.)
Now the map on p134 of Rampage is a military map showing the advance of the 5th Infantry Division across the Meuse. By 6 November the 5th captured Murvaux and halted just beyond the town. Inspection of this map shows that Murvaux was nestled in the valley between the Cote St Germaine (North and behind the town and the Cote de Jumont (opposite and parallel to the C de SG. Not only that but Murvaux is encircled by a number of forested hills each of which are over 250 yards (750') high. In 1918 all of those hills were manned by German machine gun regiments, and Flak units, as part of the Hindenburg Line.
The Frey affidavit has the witnesseus state that Luke came from Dun-sur-Meuse, flew east toward Murvaux at 50 meters (160') passed over the church, banked left to make a 180 to return to Dun, but shortly after this turn he was hit just before he passed the church, forcing him to land with his nose facing the Milly creek.
The sequence of the balloon attacks: The first at Villers-devant-Dun, the second at Sassey, and the third two kilometers West of Murvaux.
Contrast this with the 1919 affidavit which stated that the first balloon was downed at the Briere Farm near Doulcon (attacking North from Liny (4km distant); that the second balloon was flamed at Milly (4km from Doulcon); but the third balloon was not specified. Was it not mentioned because it was not witnessed?
Now do you see why it is important to know where these witnesses were when they made their observations, particularly about what Luke did after landing?
The Frey writeup has German soldiers from both Murvaux and the Cote SG going to the crash site. The soldiers from Murvaux would have got to the plane before the troops from the Cote; the former would have moved up the road and were masked by the shrubbery lining both sides of the Milly Creek. If the witnesses went with the garrisson patrol, at what point, from ground level, would they have had a clear view of Luke? 500 feet, 300, 200, 100? And with 500-700 feet hills, heavily forested, there would have been minimal or threshold light, at best.
I also ask you to consider the noise of battle, and the fact that audio flashbacks, and aural hallucinations are something else to consider.
Don't go away, Stevie, there's one more thing: If the witnesses were in the town when Luke landed, how could they have seen him pop those three balloons, given the height of the enclosing hills, and the fact that Luke attacked those balloons on the way down. The distances between shoot sites and Murvaux are 4 to 6km; which are screened by the Cote SG. The only balloon they could have seen was the one Luke downed 2km west of the CoteSG.
Steve, plot this out on the map, and you can visualize the whole event. The distance from Liny to Murvaux is 3" = 6km, so the scale is 1" = 2km.
If I can make it to Murvaux, I'll stand where Luke stood, and you can try various ranges., and determine exactly where la maisonette is.
Since the advanced field at Verdun was about 12 miles up the Meuse to Dun, Frank must have been seriously wounded not to be able to hang on for the five minutes it would have taken him to return to Verdun, or to go to Brieulles where the American troops were. Did he lose consciousness temporarily, or was he physically incapable of flying due to the injury?
Are we going to hear from Mr Lee Branch about the Maisonette and what Carisella had to say (in detail)?
VBRs and don't take me too seriously. Billy H 09/16/00.

Greetings Chris:
I don't believe that the Europeans had coroners such as we have in the US and Britain. I do know that in that war they had no need for coroners to determine the cause of death: Just count the bullet holes; the ones without the holes are the gas cases, and the ones without the arms and legs, and heads, etc are the artillery cases.
When Wehner went West, Luke said to Hartney: "I'm glad it wasn't me, because my mother doesn't know I'm at the front." His last letter to his mother (21 September) assures her not to worry and that he is an old hand at the game, etc. so I don't think Frank had a death wish.
Destroying oneself on the loss of a loved one would have everybody in the cemetery. You show your respect for the departed by living a better life.
VBRs Billy H 09/17/00.