Mannock's last victory

The other point that needs to be looked at is why an experienced pilot like Mannock was flying 200 feet above the ground behind enemy lines?

I suspect, like Richthofen on April 21, 1918, Mick was suffering from battle fatigue. Perhaps he had given up all hope of surviving the war and was no longer taking the precautions that he would have taken earlier in his career.

[Richard_Schrader]

Bud;
I agree that both MvR & Mannock were both over due for a rest. There are a few around that say that Hartmann was a better pilot then MvR because he lived through the war. They fail to see that Hartmann was shot down 7-9 times, and due to his parachute was able to fight again. Comparing WW1 pilots to WW2 pilots is like comparing apples to oranges.
Richard

[rammjaeger]

Yes, 15 to 21 is not really a small number.

Don´t forget the process of verification of victories is not closed, also not for Mannock.
Additional different sources give different numbers of verified victories for the same pilot. I guess you were using ATT.


Don´t forget 20+ would bring him a Pour le Mérite on the German side as well! Al Lowe would give his last shirt to achieve a similar number for Bishop!

And: With the application of more rigid rules pilots would also get a VC for a lower victory number! Don´t you think so? It is not fair to apply the harder rules only to Mannock without doing so for Tempest, Clayson or Burdon as well.

[Billy_Bishop]

Hannes was heard to proclaim...
"Don´t forget 20+ would bring him a Pour le Mérite on the German side as well! Al Lowe would give his last shirt to achieve a similar number for Bishop!"

WHy would I? As far as I know, Bishop has 72 officially confirmed victories, the Victoria Cross, the DSO with bar, the MC, the DFC, the Croix de Guerre, the Legion of Honour Chevalier, and several other awards I've forgotten.

I don't have to give up anything for Bishop, he's already got his gongs, whether you or anyone else thinks he deserved them or not. THey were awarded, he received them and NO ONE, can take them away from him now.

VBR,

Al Lowe

[rammjaeger]

Shirts out, Al?

[Craig]

Hannes
While irritating hero-worshippers is a justly rewarding pastime, I hope you don't expect to convince such fellows of anything they don't already believe. And any evidence contradicting their position is automatically false or irrelevant.

I do so enjoy seeing them scatter before you, scrambling to assemble an argument out of hollow, idolatrous rhetoric!

Keep up the good work
Craig

In a previous thread, it was stated that the sight of Mannock's final landing was identified shortly after the war. Two British aviators were found buried in unmarked graves. One body was identified by dog tag, but one was not. I believe that the unidentified man was thought to be but not positively identified as Mannock.

From anyone that knows: do I remember this correctly? If Mick was later identified, was he ever brought back home for a hero's burial? Also, it would be interesting to know if Mick might have done himself in, as he stated he would in the event he was to catch fire... "They'll never burn me, I'll put a bullet through my brain."

Craig

Yeah, irritating hero-worshippers is almost as much fun as irritating German record zealots. You know, the ones who actually believe that Hawker, Collishaw and Little shot down a total of 3 planes between them, because that's what the holy records say. After all, military record keepers, especially German ones, never ever falsify or omit.

Your not an iconoclast, Craig, you just worship different icons.

[Craig]

Mosby

We must have different definitions for "worship".

Mark,
Mannocks body was found some distance from the wreckage of his plane, whether he jumped, or was thrown out in the crash, no-one knows.
His body was stripped of all personal possessions by the Germans, these were returned later to his family via the Red Cross. They (Red Cross) also stated that his body was buried "at a point 300 meters North-West of La Pierre au Buerre on the road to Pacaut". However, extensive searches by the War Graves Commission after the war, revealed no such grave site. Especially as there was no road leading NW to Pacaut....There was however, a road leading NE to Pacaut, and some 20 years later, a body of an unidentified British flying officer was found at a site roughly 300 meters from the original crash site. It had been stripped of all possessions and was subsequently buried in Laventie Mititary Cemetary, in Grave 12, Row F, Plot C.
This information was taken from James Dudgeons book '"Mick" The Story of Major Edward Mannock VC'
Regards
Paul