Victory or not

In the Jasta pilots are several german Pilots mentioned who forced to land (without shooting down) their ennemy in German territory but by doing this they did not achieve a victory. Is this correct or Am I wrong.

Wout

If the enemy kite had been driven down behind enemy lines and tyhe pilot taken prisoner then the oppressing pilot would have been credited with that kill.....In my opinion perhaps the best way, victory is recorded, no one killed........

This is how LvR scored his 13th victory. He had emptied all his ammunition against this one plane, later when he visited the plane, he learned his bullets never touch the crate, it was a forced landing victory.

Should not the concept of a victory/(kill?) be quiet simple?

ie: 1) destroyed enemy aircraft...victory/kill
2) capture of enemy aircraft "

The rest is for a better lack of words B.S!!!!

[Darryl]

Hi John,

The concept of Victory/kill is simple by modern yardsticks but you have to remember that in WW1 the game was just starting. The ability of one aicraft to actually shoot down another was quite limited.
In the beginning the objective was to stop the other guy carrying out his mission...what I believe would today be termed a "Mission Kill".

This is why the purists (guilty) cringe when the term "Kill" is applied to WW1 Aerial combat.

Even the Germans with their strict rules paid "ZLG" and their equivalent of "driven down" (escapes me at the moment) early on.

Now I am not defending the policy of OOC as it was at one stage in force but at other times it was applied quite responsibly. Some CITAR's I have read have contained claims which I am sure at another point in the war would have been given OOC without question, but were refused. **Generally** the later in the war you look the more defined and reasonable claims allowed were.

regards

Darryl

[Soderbaum]

Darryl

The German term zlg(zur landung gezwungen) is better translated as forced to land.
If it occured over allied lines the German crew did NOT recieved official confirmation.
The term means that it was forced to land but the destruction of the e/a could not be verified(even if the pilot said so).
But these zlg was officialy counted...so a German pilot could have for example 7 confirmed and 2 j(jenseitz)zlg.
If the destruction of the e/a later was verified(sometimes due POWs reports) the German crew could recieve an "nachträglich" official victory.

VBR
Gunnar

[Darryl]

Hi Gunnar,

Thanks for the clarification. Good to see you back in the fray,

very best regards

Darryl