Immelmann

[Vin]

A. Somersalo´s (translated) report is first hand but inconclusive. AMH’s translation may be misleading. The account says that there was combat and that Immelman’s aircraft broke up whilst still airborne. After that you are back to the competing claims as to the cause of the aircraft break up. What is the source of Woods' and Franks' accounts ? Are the results of the 3 German engineering inspections still available ?


Vin

[rammjaeger]

Amy,

the description in Franz Immelmanns book shows that a simpel switching-off is NOT guaranteeing a safe landing but just this impression was created in your quotated source.

I guess also the little blurb is based on Franz Immelmanns book which was claiming that Max was just climbing to make his next attack against a Brit 1000 metres distant.

The three reports about Immelmanns death which I have found in old war chronicles were given by alleged eye whitnesses on the ground and reported each another course of action. One claimed a Brit followed Immelmann shooting and Immelmann vanished near a big chimney (crashed); the next said Immelmann shot down an enemy down, and nearly in the same time his airplanes started to make strange moves and fell apart;
the last whitness reported Immelmann followed a Brit and was followed by another British airplane, which was maybe hitting him in the tail because Max´ airplane fell apart. I hope you can read these accounts in my article in the Internet in near future and everybody can start to puzzle than and draw his own conclusions.

NOTE: The three last reports were published!!!
There was not the intend visibel to deny a British claim. But just these reports in the papers were hated by Boelcke and he denied their truth. Hard to believe that Boelcke did not believe what he was saying.
The later published view seems to be the result of the interrogation and was maybe creating more distrust because the German population got already the impression that Immelmann was downed by the Brits despite of all contradictions between these reports.

Max fell down from maybe 2600 metres near Sallaumines and the engine of his E.III fell on his body and "buried" him - therefore I think it was not possible to examine all parts of his body with success concerning bullet wounds. Until now I did not read an account about such an examination or its results.

[Vin]

Hannes

Will you be reproducing the reports of the German engineers and Fokker in your article on the internet ? When and where can we read it ?


Vin

[rammjaeger]

Vin,

I would feel lucky if I would have the text of the German interrogation reports but I have never heard or seen any account that these reports survived WWII. I did not intend to quotate Fokker from his book (Do the Dutch museums have an original interrogation report of Fokker?) but was bringing three of the reports published in the German war chronicles after Max´ death. There should exist many, many more because thousands of soldiers observed the extensive (for 1916) aircombats of this evening!
So I am also not woundering about the Finnish report which is representing the first opinion among the soldiers in this sector. All reports from ground observers seem to have some flaws.
Also some songs and poems were dealing with Max´ death but mostly chauvinistic and worthless.

I have currently no time to translate the stuff and Theo Penhallurick did not report progress since April or so - I can´t say the the date. We all have still another "real life" with our normal jobs and other projects too (You will find some of my lines also on Cam´s AFC-site.).

Regards

Hannes

Hello,

Did Immelmann have any special markings on his E.III? in Red Baron 3D his plane is Green (I know this is a game) Also did Immelmann's body leave the cockpit before the crash or did he fall to eath in his E.III? Also how may pictures were taken of his crashed E.III I have see 3.

Thanks,

Ben

Just because it hasn't been clearly explained, I will mention that if the propeller blade broke off, the vibration would indeed be highly destructive and killing the power would not necessarily be a solution. Switching off the engine does not stop the rotary engine from rotating; it merely cuts the power and stops the cylinders from firing. Although the engine slows quite rapidly, it continues to turn; perhaps long enough that even a quick reaction wouldn't be enough.

[rammjaeger]

Ed is correct. As a result of these imbalanced rotations the struts - which are holding the engine in its position - brake and the engine starts to change its position in the airframe and moves foreward and backward ... a soft gliding becomes impossible.

Ben,
the E.III was only a replacement aircraft. He used the E.III because his E.IV was damaged in the aircombats earlier this day. I am not knowing the markings but maybe one of the modelers knows more.

The leftover of the airframe with the engine and the pilot crashed down together (he did not jump like others) but - as often happened in other cases before and after - the pilot came under the engine.

Long time ago somebody was displaying a photograph with Immelmann within the wreck here at the Forum. I lost my copy meanwhile. I have seen two other pictures of the crash site and one or two of the parts of the wreck (maybe prepared for the examination). I am not knowing the real numbers of photographs taken there. I was not there.