Was Little the first Camel Ace?

G'day All,
I have just been going over Little's CR's and upon receiving Camel N6378 claimed his first victory on July 12 1917 and 4 days later racked up his 5th victory in this plane. In fact he racked up 10 victories in 10 days.

Was he the first Camel ace?

Andrew.

[Vin]

Andrew

Little’s Squadron reports appear to claim 7 during the period 12.7 – 27.7 as follows

12.7 1 OOC – confirmed by Bishop
13.7 1 Albatros OOC
15.7 1OOC
21.7 1OOC
22.7 a.m. 1 OOC
p.m. 1 OOC
27.7 1 Des


Vin

G'day Vin,

Added to those claims where;

13.7 Unidentified 2 seater-1015 OOC
20.7 DFW.CV-1840-DES

So it was ctually 9 in 10 days, I picked up the 2 seater on the 27th as the 22nd.
Andrew.

Info from Above the Trenches page 241.

Would it not be more accurate to say that he had nine or ten claims, as opposed to victories?

[stevedrew]

Andrew,
The answer to your question is no. Using only the bible (Above The Trenches and its supplement - all bow at the mention of the name of the holy book!)I have come up with the following facts.

There were 254 Camels aces for the British Contingent in WW1. The highest individual scorer on the type was D R Maclaren with a spectacular 54 victories credited to his name whilst flying Camels. Next highest was W G Barker with an unbelievable 46 victories in the same aircraft, B6313. He was fortunate enough to be able to take the aircraft with him to other Squadrons when he was transferred. This is, I believe, the highest scoring individual aircraft of WW1, and gives enormous credit to the flying skills of Barker not only to have so many victories in one aircraft, but that he landed it without too much damage on every occasion he returned in it.

The individual Camel scores reads this way:
1. B6313 WG Barker - 46 victories.
2. D6402 HW Woollett - 23 victories.
3. B9153 DR Maclaren - 18 victories.
4. D6418 DR Maclaren - 17 victories.

The individual pilot list reads this way:
1. DR Maclaren - 54 victories in Camels.
2. WG Barker - 46 victories in Camels.
3. WL Jordan - 39 victories in Camels.
4. JI Gilmour - 36 victories in Camels.
5. HW Woollett - 30 victories in Camels.

The earliest Camel aces were:
1. ET Hayne - Camel ace on 21 Mar 1917.
2. HV Rowley - Camel ace on 1 Apr 1917.
3. JH Forman - Camel ace on 9 May 1917.
4. RA Little - Camel ace on 16 Jul 1917(at 0830)
5. JS McDonald - Camel ace on 16 Jul 1917(at 1125)

The last Camel ace was MH Aten, who became a Camel ace in Aug 1919.

These figures are only hand sorted, and I may have missed some. But I am planning on putting all this down in an Excel database, and will confirm these facts at a later date.

I looked at Sopwith Triplane aces as well.
There were 21 Triplane aces.
Highest scoring triplane aces:
1. R Collishaw - 34
2. RA Little - 24
3. CD Booker - 21
4. EV Reid - 19
5. RP Minifie - 17

The highest scoring individual Triplane was N5493, the mount of RA Little, with 20 victories in this machine. The next highest was N5492, R Collishaw's Camel, with 18 victories. EV Reid flying N5483 was third, with 17 victories.

The first triplane ace was RS Dallas, who became a Triplane ace on 8 Apr 17. The second Triplane ace was RA Little, who became an ace on the type on 28 Apr 17. The third was RJO Compston, who became a Tripe ace on 10 May 17.

I hope that answers your question, mate.

Steve Drew

Very impressive work Steve! Hats off to you

G'day Steve,
I looked at your impressive work and thought wow. Then something struck me as funny. You had HV Rowley second on the list with an April date and ET Hayne first, with a May date, I then cross checked your work and realised that you came up with an error that has not been a stranger to me, you missed the changing of the year. All of the men you have listed with Little did not become Camel aces until 1918, except JS McDonald, and Rowley who never became an ace on this type of machine.

Going down the list

ET Hayne;
1st Vic - 22 Aug 1917
5th Vic - 21 Mar 1918

HV Rowley
1st Vic - 12 Mar 1918
Did not become an ace on a Camel, he had 5 victories on a Tripe, and 4 in a Camel.

JH Forman
1st Vic - 27 Jul 1917
5th Vic - 12 Apr 1918

JS McDonald
1st Vic - 22 May 1917
5th Vic - 16 Jul 1917

Perhaps I should go through the book myself, I find it a daunting task though. So the question remains. "Was Little the first Camel ace".

Andrew.

Further to JS McDonald, on reviewing the supplement ot ATT, all his victories were scored in 1918, not 1917.

Andrew.

[Vin]

Balkankreuz

No, Andrew is correct to call them victories. Most were confirmed either by fellow fliers or by observers on the ground. They are officially recognised as victories. When you read the pilot’s accounts of engagement, you become a bit more sympathetic towards out of controls. In Little’s account of the OOC on 21 July he writes

“I then went north at about 14,000 feet and met a formation of seven Albatross Scouts. I saw one diving on a Spad, so I attacked him at very close range, and after firing about 200 rounds the machine went into a dive and appeared to be completely out of control. I followed it down to 1,000 feet when I was attacked by another E.A., and as I was run out of ammunition, I returned home.”

You could hardly blame Little for not continuing to watch the first enemy aircraft.


Vin

[Russell]

Glad to see people still read something I helped write, altho I find it difficult to believe ATT is 10 years old. As to first Camel ace, Litle was first Shook second.