Morane-Saulnier LA Type IV

A great uncle of mine, Ronald W. Hoskier, serving in the Escadrille Lafayette, was shot down on April 23, 1917. I am searching for details about the aircraft he flew the day he died, the MS LA Type IV. Can anybody help me ? I have not only a picture of it !

The Morane-Saulnier LA (which was given the military designation MoS.4) was a two-seat parasol monoplane. It was a development of the Type L (most famous as the machine used by Roland Garros and R.A.J. Warneford). According to K. Munson, the French don't seem to have used the LA very much. Performance-wise, the LA seems to have been similar to the L (max. speed about 70 mph, ceiling about 13,000 ft); the main differences were that the fuselage was rounded instead of slab-sided, and the LA had a spinner on the prop. The machine was not highly regarded by British crews.

I am not familiar with these aircraft.
However, Internet Modeler magazine
(www.internetmodeler.com)has a kit
review (constructed model) of a
Morane-Saulnier AI, parosol wing monoplane.
Nice looking model.

Re. death of Hoskier: Herbert Mason has written in "Lafayette Escadrille" regarding the two-seat Morane which was flown by Hoskier on his final flight: "Hoskier..approached Thenault (Sqd. C.O.)and pleaded for permission to fly it on one offensive patrol. He would take with him, he said, de Laage's orderly, Jean Dressy, a qualified aerial gunner. Thenault gave in and told Hoskier he could accompany one of the regular patrols. (These others would be in Nieuport 17s)...On the morning of April 23,(this would be 1917)- he and Dressy climbed into the high-winged monoplane and took off to follow Thaw, Haviland and Willis over enemy territory...(during the patrol) Hoskier had fastened the Parasol on the tail of a diving Albatross.....ground observers saw two or three other Germans riding the tail of the Parasol, which was caught up in a web of tracers The broad, fragile-looking wing of the French plane tore loose from its moorings to flutter lazily into the sky, but the fuselage plunged earthward like a comet for several thousand feet." It may be worth noting that the Morane had three distinctive appearing a/c in the French Air service during WWI. One was a "bullet" type which was inspired by the Deperdussin (soon to be S.P.A.D.) "Bullet" of 1912-14 and it in turned inspired the Bristol "Bullet". These "bullets" were configured in a mid-wing monoplane form with a pylon above the fuselage supporting the wing wires. All single seaters, I believe. Another version was a two seater with the wing mounted above the fuselage. As noted in the other response, these two seaters evolved from squarish fuselages to rounded streamlined versions- inspired from the "Bullet" it would appear. The most promising of the M-S designs was the A-I of early 1918. It was a fast, dangerous adversary (One American pilot with the French, Rufus Rand, reported it "scared hell out of the Germans.") and perhaps the prettiest fighter of the era. A parasol, it was beautifully shaped- evidencing some nice streamling. It was quite short and thusly extremely responsive. It was powered by the 160 Gnome in its front-line configuration. There were problems with wing failure as well as reliability problems with the 160. The Laf. Escadrille had not heard the end of M-S with the death of Hoskier and Dressy: On May 23rd one of the Morane single seaters (A "Bullet" probably, as this was during the time they had appeared at the front)had landed at Ham. "It aroused in de Laage an irresistible urge to master its eccentricities....de Laage had barely got the tail up when he hauled back on the stick and zoomed upward in dangerously steep turn. Then at 150 feet the roar of the engine stopped abruptly. The Morane fell off on one wing and fell to the ground with a sickening crash." I'm building an approximation of the A-I with a 220 Continental engine,etc. Nothing original about it. I am always interested in anything concerning the M-S a/c and the L.E. I can get you more info if needed. You are no doubt aware that RH's father was head of Norton-Harjes Ambulance in Paris? VBR. Lee

It doesn't seem too likely to me that the Morane referred to in Mr. Branch's post was a "Bullet" (the Morane Type N). The N had become obsolete nearly a full year earlier, and by mid-1917 the only place you might find an N (or its successor, which I think was the Type V) was in Russia. Keep in mind that the N, like its contemporary the Fokker E-III, used wing-warping for lateral control. (For what it's worth, the British hated the Morane N as well as the LA. Only one squadron -- 60 -- was equipped with it, and that squadron was withdrawn at the height of the air battle of the Somme in 1916 after suffering heavy casualties. At that, the N was considered superior to the Eindekker. Go fig.)

Thanks to Michel Skeet for his precisions ! Can somebody indicate me some elements about the color shemes of MoS LA ? I know my question is not easy, all the more because the one who flew in the Lafayette Escadrille was the unique in its unit !

A few corrections. The MoS Type N was the predecessor to the Type I and the Type V. The I and N were used by the IRAS while the French didn't fly many I's. Documentation on the V is difficult to come by.

The Type L is the high wing monoplane that also used wing warping as its means of control. The Type LA also used wing warping, but went with the more rounded fuselage. The Type P was basically (on the surface) a Type LA with ailerons.

Most French schemes of the early Moranes were basically French CDL - a warmer version of CDL than the British. Some of the Type L's had either a natural wood forward fuselage (most likely mahogany) or were overpainted in some color.

The color information is my opinion only.

Be sure to see my site for more info on kit availability: French WW1 Aircraft in Model Form

Matt Bittner

Thanks to Matt for reminding me about the Morane Type I. One of my books has a couple of references to, and a profile of, a Type V in Russian service.

As for LA colour schemes, I agree with Matt: everything I've seen indicates clear-doped linen finish with painted wood and metal fittings.

I looked a little further into the question of what type M-S de Laage crashed and find a photo in Mason's book "The Lafayette Escadrille" which shows de Laage in the ship just prior to taking it up. The photo reveals it, indeed, to be a "Bullet" as I'd recalled it being. There was always an odd ship around here and there for one reason or the other. Robert E. Lee Scott (God's Pilot?) was flying a Army P-12 at Chino in 1940-41 when none had been on the official Air Corps TOE for many years- in fact, one afternoon, he landed at Santa Anita Race Track- in the infield- made a few bets and took off back to Chino- ah! those were the days! No?. For all purposes the A-I was a "Bullet" with a parasol wing and indeed one of the surviving ex-USAAS A-Is was taken back to France in the last year or so where the intended purpose is to revise it to a mid-wing "Bullet" configuration. I am assuming here that Mason has the asserted photo of de Laage and the Morane correctly captioned; for with regard to another photograph, in what is otherwise a nicely authoritative work, he makes quite a gaffe in describing what is obviously a crashed and burned SPAD, with characteristic oval radiator, exhaust pipes and a V-8 engine clearly evident amidst the wreckage: He captions the photographed wreck as "closely resembling that of "Hoskier's downed Morane Monocoque." Obviously, there is no similarity in appearance between this Hispano engined wreckage and the "rotary" of the ill-fated Morane. BTW: Anyone know why the typical wood and fabric construction of this ship could be considered "monocoque"? Possibly some misinterpretation along the way which saw "monoplace" misinterpreted as "monocoque"? BTW: I gather that apparently the "Dep" version of the "bullet" configuration (first 100 mph a-c) was done while Morane was with that firm as the chief designer. He, then is possibly to be seen as one of the seminal influences in the development of these Deperdussin speedsters. One of the "Deps", an original, is newly on display at the San Diego Air Museum. It's incredible to see what the French were doing just a few years after Wilbur brought his box-kite over there to make those flights at Les Hunaudieres in August of 1908! I am looking forward to further news re the M-S. Can anyone give me the more info re the American flyer Rufus Rand? He was known to be a risk-taker and I am curious as to his fate. He was with a M-S escadrille flying the AI according to a "Profile" I have on those ships.