Who shot down the Red Baron?

[stephen]

Who shot down the Red Baron? It is common belief that Billy Bishop shot down the Red Baron but according to the aerodrome Captian Arthur Roy Brown is oficially credited with the kill. Bishop is credited in school textbooks with shooting down the Red Baron.

No sane person believes Billy Bishop shot down MvR.

you must be joking, I suggest you re read the book to find it says Brown or, change schools to one where the books at least get it wrong correctly...

...or come to Australia, enrol in one of our schools and hear about one Sgt.Popkin (ho ho ho!)

Bugger!! missed the b@$T@rd!!!!!

[mike_baram]

Where is Al Lowe when we really need him?

My brother Cyril missed, but I didn't!

I can't imagine WHERE it would be "common belief" that Bishop shot down MvR - certainly nowhere I'm aware of. As someone stated above, no "sane" (or at least, informed) person would claim that Bishop downed MvR. Actually, he wasn't even on the same continent at the time!

Bishop went to Canada in Sept 1917 on a recruiting drive. He returned to France in command of 85 squadron on 22 May 1918. Since MvR was killed on 21 April 1918, it would have been rather difficult for Billy to have been involved.

Actually, MvR was caught while chasing a novice, WR "Wop" May, low over the lines. Capt AR Brown did attempt to follow him, and was given "official" credit. However, there was also the claim that he was hit by Australian machine gunners on the ground. Several books have been written on the subject, notably "Who Killed the Red Baron?" (Carisella and Ryan, 1969) and "The Red Baron's Last Flight" (Franks and Bennett, 1997). Both books are extensively researched, and the second is reviewed on this site. Both books also reach the conclusion that Brown was not in position to have gotten the fatal hit, and that gunner Cedric Bassett Popkin, on the ground, most likely shot him down.

Rich

Does Stephen's statement about what is present in school books surprise anyone? I'm not so sure the thief executive and his educational experts in the DOE can agree that 2 + 2 = 4 or decide upon the meaning of 'is'. Incidently, never knew the baron had died. I heard he was a earning a decent commission selling Studebakers in Cleveland.

[Droops]

From "The Red Baron's Last Flight, a Mystery Investigated" by Norman Franks and Alan Bennett.

Four claims were submitted against Richthofen. The first was by two RE8s from 3 AFC. Lt. T.L. Simpson and Lt. E.C. Banks (in A3661) and Lt. S.G. Garrett and Lt. A.V. Barrow were attacked by two Fokker DrI triplanes while on recpn missions. The first, an all-red triplane, spun down and didn't return after a protracted battled. The second triplane received hits and also disengaged. After reading that Richthofen had come down near where they had been flying, the 3 AFC pilots put in a claim.

The second claim was by Capt. A. Roy Brown DSC, in the 209 RAF. As mentioned previously, he was attempting to save Lt. Wop May (Canadian, I believe) who was being chased by Richthofen. Brown is credited with the kill officially.

The third claim came from a pair of ground gunners. Gunner Robert Buie and Gunner William James Evans, of the 53rd Battery, also claimed to have shot down Richthoven.

The final claim, which was made a little later than the others, was by Sgt. Cedric Popkin of the 24th Machine Gun Company.

Franks and Bennett conclude that Popkin was the man responsible for getting Richthofen. The book is an excellent read and I recommend it.

Droops