Officer's Kepi

I am trying to find a detailed picture of the top of an officers kepi (like what Guynemer is seen wearing in so many phots, and also like the Navy Blue/Red one in the TimeLife Knights of the Air book - color plate showing aviator uniforms). It seems to have a "4 leaf clover" type design on the top but I cannot seem to find a clear and decisive photo in great detail. I have been able to see the "4 leaf clover" effect on other pilot officers by finding pictures of them looking up or down...but these are very vague. If someone has a clear, definitive, detailed photo of the top of the Kepi and you would like to share it, please send me an e-mail at TMCell@yahoo.com.

Thanks in advance,

Paul

[leo]

Did you see the movie, "Gettysburg"? Ted Turner wore a French style Kepi while playing the role of a Cnfederate Captain. He was shot. I have seen this style hat in several other places, but this is the first that comes to mind.

[mike_baram]

I can think of many reasons for Ted Turner getting shot, but a sartorial faux pas never entered my mind.

I have no photo but know what you are talking about. One description in Haythornwaite's book
(two different editions)based on the French army
pattern)"rank distinction was carried on the kepi,
which had a lace knot on the crown continuing as vertical lines of lace at the top of the sides
of the cap: for subalterns these lines and knot were of a single strip of lace, for captains two
and field officers three." One photo I have of
Guynemer shows him in dk blue coat/jacket but with
a light blue or red kepi (while Fonck is in all
horizon blue). If there were definite regulations
for dress in the air service, many wore what they
preferred to wear (at least in British and French
services; the Russians also had quite a selection)
Some regulation dress (if it existed) might never
catch up with quickly promoted pilots assuming
they would ever wear it.

During WWI, members of the "Aéronautique militaire" (officers and other ranks) were supposed to wear they corps of origine uniforms colours of which werre ALL different. When the "bleu horizon" was put into service, they were supposed to follow suit, but they seldom did it.

[leo]

Mike Baram:
I believe the red and blue French Kepi was rather a common item in Confederate service.

More info:
1)The French uniform from 1870 to 1914 was basically the same although many changes were
considered, including uniform color
2) If this holds true for the officers kepi,
the regulations called for a quatrefoil knot
decoration on the top (granted that by 1914
the "kepi" was a taller, cylindrical, more solid "hat" than ranks' kepi. Some US Civil War uniforms
both North and South (and in every branch of
service) shows a similar pattern although
regulations in many cases added braid to that same decoration according to rank, but probably
not universal (how could it be?)).
So, who has got Civil War uniform photos to
send to Paul? Check out any number of reinactment
web sites. Heck, you'll find a site on uniform
study I'm sure.

[mike_baram]

OK, Leo. We can always find some other justification for shooting the "Mouth That Roared".
Mike

On Ebay there is what is listed as a WW1 FRENCH OFFICER KEPI as #258053462. There are a couple of nice pics of it-but hurry it ends today and a lot of the time they drop the pics after the auction ends.
Regards,
Steve