Class in the ranks

It seem to me that in the great war all officers were all noblemen, for example the Red Baron, Albert Ball and Max Immelmann. Why is this? Just because they are rich does not mean they can shoot or fly any better then the working class.

I have been trying to find a Major Arthur Saw, he is my great great uncle. I know he was posh, because my grandmothers father visited him. Has anyone heard of him? I man the Red Baron father was a major or did the Germans have to be of more nobleer birth then the British to even be a Major?

Thanks

Ben

[mike_baram]

European society was very stratified. Generally, the lower classes never had the opportunity to get the education that the upper classes received, so leadership positions naturally went to those who had the better education. This was especially true of Germany and Russia.
However, more democratic societies such as France and England made it possible for the sons of wealthy commoners to enter those positions (e.g. - Harry Abrahams, the son of a wealthy merchant, was a commissioned officer in WWI. He went on to win a gold medal in the '24 Olympics and was eventually knighted.) The United States, being a more egalitarian society, did not place such barriers in the paths of bright and capable young men. I doubt if leaders such as Rickenbacker, Eisenhower or Rickover would ever have been permitted to succeed in European military organizations.

[PeterL]

Ben, I do think you are guilty of generalisation here, for Albert Ball was not a "nobleman". He did come from a middling wealthy family, as did the officers of most nations, including the United States. In an age when the ability to pay was the key to a good education such men were naturaly the better educated. A good education is still a primary consideration for officer selection.

IMO all arms of all nations came out of the Great War more inclined to meritocracy than aristocracy, and the air arms led the way.

fwiw

Peter L

[leo]

The war did a lot to break down class structure. Mother Necessity made it necessary to promote members of the lower classes to officer status as the casualty figures rose. Most of these were deseving the promotions they received. Austria was the most class concious of all and even there late in the war promotions were made.

[PeterL]

Difficult but not impossible to climb the social scale in England. There was always a Field Marshall's baton in every private soldier's knapsack.
What about Major James Byford McCudden.
I think it more than likely that the gentlemen Mike names would have achieved officer rank.
Peter S

[mike_baram]

Peter,
You are right, given what Leo said. But it needed a break with tradition to get the ball rolling in the direction of meritocracy.
But I think it's a tribute to the classless nature of American society (social, not economic, of course)that a high school dropout from Texas became our most decorated GI of WWII, and would have gone to West Point if he hadn't been wounded:
Pvt. to Lt. Audie Murphy.

Mannock wasn't exactly born with a silver spoon in his mouth.

andy

I've watched "Hell Is For Heroes", I also have "The History of the 3ID in WW2" as an autographed edition of it was presented to my father by a 4 Star. Audie was a natural.

Audie Murphy is the exception that proves the rule. He may have started out as a high school drop out (not uncommon in the 1930s) but his battlefield commission wouldn't be worth squat without that ring to knock.

West Pointers make up a small number of Army Officers (compared to ROTC, other academies, and OCS) but a large majority of Generals. Even today, in most military organizations there is a certain level of "class" that exists.

War may make it necessary to allow commoners to become leaders but peace is sure to return normalcy to the classes.

Tobias

Great soldier Audie Murphy saw his grave in Arlington cemetery.
Britain had two Field Marshalls risen from the ranks. One in the First World War and one in the second.
william "Wully" Robertson son of a village postmaster. joined as a trooper in 1877 aged 17. Rose to the post of CIGS and ended a Field Marshall.
The other Field Marshall Slim Commander of the 14th Army who took Rangoon and was mainly responsible for liberating Burma. There was a chap called Joe Stillwell who helped.
Peter S

[PeterL]

No gripe, he hasn't said anything I would disagree with, but for the record the second submission is Peter S not Peter L. Slip of the keyboard

Peter L