Refusing to have McCudden

I just read that a squadron refused to have James McCudden as their CO because he came from the ranks. A couple of questions come to mind: which squadron, when, WHY, who (a particular person?) had enough brass to reject a hero and was this a vestage of the class lines that seem to influence a lot of decisions about command.

DD

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Denny:

In this age of political correctness, this may be hard to understand. But if you came from the wrong side of the tracks, even in this country, you could not aspire to greatness. I am not talking about blacks or other minorities. I am talking about whites. There were class distinctions. The division before WW2 was a college education. Only the rich kids went to college in this country. In Great Britain and Germany the division was even sharper. WW2 evened the playing field. The rich could not provide a sufficient number of officers for all the services in these varying countries. In Great Britain they handled the situation with Sergeant Pilots in the RAF, they did not associate with the officers, except in combat, but not socially. It is still a fact of life, but, not to the extent of yesterday. I am not sure, but, I think it was 85 Squadron S.E.5a (RAF), they picked Mannock, he was from the unwashed, and furthermore he was a solialist!

Bluer skies,
Dan-San

it's also possible, the man in charge of making the decision to accept, (or in this case), not to accept mc cudden as co, just didn't like the guy.

no matter what mc cuddens record was like. he could have had a hundred kills, and it still wouldn't make a difference.
people do have conflicts of personality. they're not supposed to be bias, but you and i both know it happens all the time.

being from dallas, i can say in all honesty, no matter how good micheal irvin was, i would have let him go in a heartbeat.

i doubt this was the case, but you never know. it is possible.


leon

[WFS]

One thing that always stuck in my craw was the contrast between the memorial service given to McCudden and that of MvR. In my opinion, giving McCudden, one of Britains greatest, little more than a simple soldier's funeral after burying an enemy ace with full honors, placed a mark of shame on the British military.

Regards,
Wayne

Leon: The situation doesn't seem to be one of the CO's personal dislike for Mc Cudden. Sholto Douglas says, "...another squadron's refusal...condemns them for arrogant snobbishness.... It seems to be a question of social class, but a squadron spitting in the eyes of their superiors, somehow that seems very out of character for English officers and gentelmen. Douglas also draws a lot of parallels between MVR and Mc Cudden, so it was interesting to see Wayne contrast their treatment at the end. Let me take a minute to recommend "Combat and Command" by Sholto Douglas. It is a good read, chocked full of good information.

thanks. it's not listed in the 'book' section of this site. do you know where i can get a copy?


leon

Leon: The book is entitled "Combat And Command"; it was written by Sholto Douglas. The publisher was Simon and Shuster, New York, 1966. There have been a number of references on this site for finding books and book sellers. I can't think of the names off hand. Maybe we can get some help from other forumites.
DD

[WFS]

Leon,

Two of my favorite book search sites are:

AddALL Used and Out of Print book search

and

BookFinder.com: Search for New & Used Books, Textbooks, Out-of-Print and Rare Books.

I've found quite a few hard-to-find books through them.

Best Regards,
Wayne

thanks, guys.

i don't normally read anything other than books on german pilots, but i'll try. .

leon

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Leon:

It has bothered me the RAF and the British goverment could not honor this man in death as they did in life. *He served his King and country with honor and distinction and was the bestowed of the V.C. for valor and gallantry in action and that in itself should be reason enough to have been buried with full military honors, at least, the honors equivalent to what was bestowed on Richthofen, sad, very sad. :-[ :'(

Very grey misty skies,

Dan-San