R.A Little DSC* RNAS

stevedrew · 24 October 2001, 05:46 PM

Forum,
Reading through Robert Alexander Little's citation for the Bar to his DSC, I came across this piece of information, and would like to try to find the German pilot that he shot down on this day. It's probably mentioned in ATT, but I don't have my copy here (sadly missed).

"On the 30th April (1917), with three other machines he went up after hostile machines and saw a big fight going on between fighter escorts and hostile aircraft. Flt Lt Little attacked one at fifty yards range, and brought it down out of control. A few minutes later he attacked a red scout with a larger machine than the rest. This machine was handled with great skill, but by clever manoeuvring Flt Lt Little got into a good position and shot it down out of control."

Can anyone supply details of the type of machine and the name of the pilot of the red scout, and transcript of Flt Lt Little's "Combats In The Air Report" for this incident? Did the pilot survive the incident? Did he crash or spin down to ground level and flatten out and head for home?

Can anyone supply details of the Squadron he was in at the time, the names of the other accompanying pilots, and whether any of them scored victories during this encounter (possibly shared with Flt Lt Little), and the area in which the combat took place?

Thanks in advance *

*

Steve Drew

Graeme · 24 October 2001, 11:00 PM

Steve

Little was in Naval 8 at the time and on 30 April 1917 was a member of the Flight led by Flt Cdr Robert Compston. Compston brought down two Aviatik two-seaters in the vicinity of Douai (06:45 and 07:00) and Little two Albatros scouts east of Arras (07:10 and 07:25); according to the RFC Communique, the first machine attacked by Little was driven down out of control, the second merely driven down.

Above The Trenches offers no information on possible German casualties. Using Casualties of the German Air Service, Jasta 9 lost two pilots KIA at Nauroy - Ltn d R Adolf Frey and Ltn Werner Marwitz - while Ltn Friedrich Mallinckrodt of Jasta 20 was wounded (no location).

Lothar von Richthofen was in action at about this time but his combats are recorded as being in the vicinity of Izel.

Since none of the locations seem to match, it seems likely that neither German pilot suffered an injury.

Graeme

MikeW · 26 October 2001, 09:10 AM

Steve,

for what it's worth, Compston's log reads: -

30.4.17 - - Triplane 5471 - - 1hr 30min - -15000 ft

Special mission. Got two Huns east of Douai.

He doesn't give a time, but it was his first patrol of the day so it probably was the early morning show.

Mike

26 October 2001, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Little was in Naval 8 at the time and on 30 April 1917 was a member of the Flight led by Flt Cdr Robert Compston. Compston brought down two Aviatik two-seaters in the vicinity of Douai (06:45 and 07:00) and Little two Albatros scouts east of Arras (07:10 and 07:25); according to the RFC Communique, the first machine attacked by Little was driven down out of control, the second merely driven down.

Graeme,

Copies of the citars I have of Little's circa April May have him flying quite a bit with Flt Cdr A R Arnold. In fact on the 29th he flew with him. Is it possible that Little was part of Arnold's Flight?

Steve,
Compston (2) ,Little(2) and Booker(1) all had claims for that day. I don't have that particular CITAR but I am getting copies of nearly all of his citars from a friend. Of course you will also be getting same.

While on the subject, Little's CITAR for April 29 1917 mentions that they passed 3 red Albatros Scouts and a Fokker Triplane. He thought the Triplane had the number 16 on its fuselage. Does anyone have any idea who the pilot of the Tripe was?

Regards,
Andrew.

stevedrew · 26 October 2001, 06:41 PM

No clues as to the type of machine the red scout was??? Was the alleged area of combat close enough to the area that LvR was allegedly patrolling to think that he may be slightly off in his bearings...or the British pilots were??
Any other ideas as to who the squadron was that they fought....."a big fight" described in his citation would signify many aircraft....any ideas???

Steve Drew

EdStevens · 27 October 2001, 12:11 AM

Okay, this is a long shot, but could the pilot in the Triplane with the number 16 have been Ernst Udet? I'm thinking that if you saw "Lo" (utterly meaningless to an outsider) on the side of a fuselage from a distance, you could well expect it to be a two-digit number, and interpret it as "16".

Where was Udet operational at the time? Do the locations match?

Graeme · 27 October 2001, 08:42 AM

Andrew

I'll have to check my original notes but I don't have Arnold mentioned on 30 April 1917, but that doesn't mean that his Flight wasn't in action or that Little wasn't a member of it. It could be that at the time I made my notes, I associated Little and Compston due to the times of their claims; more digging required.

Steve

If Lothar meant Izel-les-Equerchin, that would place him a little under 8 miles (12.5 Km) west of Douai and about 10 miles (16 Km) north west of where Little placed his combats on 30 April. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that they met.

It seems that both 18 and 57 Sqns RFC were active around Douai at this time but their "big" combat didn't take place until 09:30 - 09:45 with 8 claims being made (1 Albatros scout destroyed and 7 out of control); locations mentioned were Baralle, Bourlon, Marquion and Buissy (all to the north west of Cambrai).

Ed

Udet was with Jasta 15 until he transferred to Jasta 37 on 19 June 1917. If memory serves, Jasta 15 was based well to the south (down Soissons way) which would be well away from where Naval 8 were operating.

Graeme

MikeW · 27 October 2001, 09:00 AM

Guys, guys, calm down - check your dates for the introduction of the Fokker triplane.

If any triplane was seen with a number 16 on it, it could only have been a Naval 1 Sopwith Triplane. In fact if any triplane with anything on the side was seen it could only have been a Sopwith Triplane.

Let's face it, it probably was just mistaken identity.

Mike

Soderbaum · 27 October 2001, 09:28 AM

Hi

It seems that it was not only a Triplane mania among the Germans at this stage...

However the French were flying Triplanes with similar number markings....but were unlikely(but not impossible) in this area... ???

Gunnar

MikeW · 27 October 2001, 11:51 AM

Hi Gunnar,

The French Sopwith triplanes were pretty well tied up providing top cover for Dunkerque flying out of St. Pol. In the vicinity of Douai? - I doubt it very much.

Naval 1 flying from La Bellevue would be more likely.

However, is it likely that a single Naval 1 triplane would be chasing several members of the circus? Though it could have been the other way around I suppose.

At this moment in time I'm not sure if Naval 1's aircraft were numbered beyond #15 in April 17 - there was a shortage of scout pilots and RNAS squadrons were restricted to 15 aircraft at the time.