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2001 Closed threads from 2001 (read only)

 
 
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Old 12 December 2001, 09:16 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Do you have any information about these two pilots? More than the information I can find here? I´m interested in all that you might have.
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Old 12 December 2001, 10:21 AM   #2 (permalink)
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See if you can find a copy of "Aviation Awards of Imperial Germany in WWI-vol. I Bavaria" There is a lot of information there about Eduard Schleich. Also, in Over The Front vol. 13 no. 3 Fall issue, there is also a piece on von Schleich with a lot of photographic references.

Walter von Bülow information also appears in Neal O'Connors Aviation Awards of Imperial Germany in WWI-vol. II Prussia goes over Prussian Awards including the House of Hohenzollern Order and Pour le Merite recipients, of which von Bülow was one.

Off the top of my head those are two quick references worth looking at.
 
Old 12 December 2001, 03:56 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Hi,
Yes, you should definitely check out the superb works by Neal O'Connor mentioned by Aviatik - the best English-language sources available on these two men.The article on von Schleich by Ken Greenfield in "Over the Front" is also very worthy of inspection. There were two books written about von Schleich in Germany in the 1930's:

Fried Lange wrote "Ritter v. Schleich: Jagdflieger im Weltkrieg und im Dritten Reich" (Dusseldorf: Volkischer Verlag G.m.b.H., 1939), and

Karl Alois Schenzinger wrote "Der Schwarze Ritter: Kriegserlebnisse des Kampfliegers, Eduard Ritter von Schleich" (Berlin: Verl;ag und Vertriebs-Gesellschaft, 1936).

I have the Lange book, and if you can get past the Nazi propaganda there is quite a bit of interesting primary info in it, and some good photos - I would imagine the same is true of the Schenzinger book. I have seen the Lange book recently up for auction on eBay, or you might try some of the web's rare book dealers.

Hope that helps.

Greg VanWyngarden
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Old 13 December 2001, 04:59 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Hello Charles!

Here you will find some info concerning Eduard von Schleich.
(I´ll give you some info about Walter von Bülow-Bothkamp later because I don´t know how to insert two or more links.)

http://209.235.66.44/WW1/Germans/Pilots/Schleich.htm
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Old 13 December 2001, 05:01 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Hello Charles!

Here is the second one (Walter von Bülow-Bothkamp):

http://209.235.66.44/WW1/Germans/Pilots/Bulow-W.htm
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Old 13 December 2001, 02:37 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Charles, perhaps their service records might be of interest.

Ltn. Walter von Bülow- Bothkamp:
FEA 5 * * * * * * * * * * * Apr15 *- * *Sep15
FA 22 * * * * * * * * * * * Sep15 *- *14Mar16
FA 300 * * * * * * * * *14Mar16 *- *13Jun16 *WIA,lt
Hospital * * * * * * * * 13Jun16 *- * 1Jul16
FA 300 * * * * * * * * * *1Jul16 *- * 7Dec16
Jasta 18 * * * * * * * * *7Dec16 *- *10May17
Jasta 36 C.O. * * * * 10May17 *- *13Dec17
Jasta 2 C.O. * * * * * 13Dec17 *- * 6Jan18 *KIA St. Julien

Hptm.d.R. Eduard Ritter von Schleich:
(Oblt.d.R.)
FEA 1b * * * * * * * * * 3May15 *- *20Nov15
AFP 6 * * * * * * * * * *20Nov15 *- *18Dec15
FA 2b * * * * * * * * * 19Dec15 *- * 3Apr16 *WIA,lt.
FA 2b * * * * * * * * * * 3Apr16 *- * 16May16
KG Hoffmeister (KG 1) 17May16 *- *23May16
FA 2b * * * * * * * * * * 23May16 *- * 5Aug16
FEA 1b Instr. * * * * * 5Aug16 *- * 8Sep16
FS I C.O. * * * * * * * * 9Sep16 *- *12Feb17
Schsta 28b C.O. * * * 12Feb17 *- * 4May17
AFP C * * * * * * * * * * * 4May17 *- * 4May17
JsSch I * * * * * * * * * * 4May17 *- *21May17
Jasta 21 * * * * * * * * *21May17 *- *21Oct17
Jasta 21 Stv. C.O. * *22May17 *- *26May17
Jasta 21 C.O. * * * * * 26May17 *- *23Oct17
Jasta 32b C.O. * * * *23Oct17 *- *10Jan18
FS I Instr. * * * * * * * 10Jan18 *- *18Mar18
(Hptm.d.R.)
JGp 8 C.O. * * * * * * * 18Mar18 *- *30Sep18
JG IVb C.O. * * * * * * 30Sep18 *- *EOW

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Old 15 December 2001, 12:02 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Thank you for the links to Von Schleich and Von Bülow-Bothkamp, Volker, and everyone as well! Do you know if the sign on the the aircraft in one of the photos is his own? Not forgetting the all black Fokker DR1 that Von Schleich flew, was it painted all black with no personal insignias at all? Can I find a photo of it somewhere? Do you know what kind of fighter Von Bülow-Bothkamp flew besides his Albatros DV 2080/17? Was that the only type he flew? Did he have any personal insignias? Photos??
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Old 15 December 2001, 06:50 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Charles Nungesser:
I have no data that Von Schleich ever flew a all black fokker Triplane. What is your data source? To my knowledge, Schleich flew (fighters) at Jasta 21s: Alb. D.V, Jasta 32b;Alb. D.Va, Gruja 8; Rol. D.VIa and a Fok.D.VII. I have these in 3 view drawings.
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Old 15 December 2001, 09:27 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Dan-San,

I found that information here on the Aces list believe it or not .
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Old 15 December 2001, 04:36 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Dear Jan,
The story that Schleich flew an all-black triplane is unfortunately a myth, engendered by J I T "Taffy" Jones' books. On 12 April 1918, on his first fighter combat patrol with 74 Squadron, Jones narrowly escaped from an all-black Triplane; we now know this was actually Josef Jacobs of Jasta 7 (the description in Jacobs' diary, time, places,..everything matches). However, during the 1930's Taffy met von Schleich at least once and became somehow convinced that it was von Schleich he tangled with that day, and said so in his various books. I imagine the two old aces overlooked the niceties of time, location, and even aircraft type - or else this was lost somehow in the translation between them. At any rate, Schleich had indeed flown black aircraft, so it seemed a good match to Taffy.

As for Schleich's actual aircraft, might I be so immodest as to suggest you check out my article on this ace's aircraft in "Over the Front", Volume 13 No. 3 ? In his very early days Schleich was photographed in front of a very plain Albatros C.I. He also flew a well-known Roland C.II "Walfisch", either at Schutzstaffel 28b or, perhaps more likely, at Flieger Abteilung 2b. There are photos of this plane in the Roland C.II Profile and Datafile, and one on page 208 of the recent C & C International Journal, Viol. 32 No. 4, 2001. After he took command of Jasta 21, he flew the very familiar Albatros D.V with his own Bavarian lion emblem on a circular field of the Bavarian crest pattern of blue/white diamonds.This machine also bore the black/white fuselage band of Prussian Jasta 21, and standard camouflage on wings and tailplane. This aircraft has been illustrated many times, once in the Albatros D.V "Profile", but be aware that the lion emblem faced forward on BOTH sides of the aircraft. On 27 July 1917, Schleich lost his good friend and J. 21 pilot Erich Limpert, and he reportedly had this same Albatros D.V painted black in mourning. From then on he would be associated with black aircraft (but never flew a Dr.I, as far as I know !).

As commander of Jasta 32b he flew an Albatros D.V which had a black fuselage and tail, with a white spinner - it's possible the wings were black too. When he commanded Jagdgruppe 8b he flew an Albatros D.Va with all-black fuselage, undercarriage, wheel covers and tail. This machine had five-colour fabric wings and the early style of Balkenkreuze. This D.Va had formerly been flown by Kissenberth, and the photos show traces of the former pilot's edelweiss emblem beneath the black overpaint. You can find a photo and color profile of this D.Va in the Osprey Albatros Aces book.

In late 1918 it seems Schleich flew a Fokker D.VII (OAW) but all we have to go on for this aircraft are two of Rudolf Stark's paintings. The aircraft probably had an all-black fuselage and tailplane, with white fin/rudder and four-color lozenge fabric wings. It bore Schleich's old Bavarian lion insignia, again on a circular design of blue/white diamonds, and also had two blue and white streamers trailing from the interplane struts. A color profile of this a/c appeared in "Fokker D.VII Anthology 2" from Albatros Productions, but we goofed and Ray Rimell's painting shows the lion facing the wrong direction !

As for Ltn. Walter von Bülow-Bothkamp, there are not many photos of his aircraft available. While he was in Jasta 18 in 1917, he flew Albatros D.III 1954/16. This machine had a plain varnished fuselage, with a very dark(probably red or black) thin vertical stripe aft of the cockpit and dark wheel covers. There is a captioned photo on page 42 of Alex Imrie's "German Fighter Units 1914-May 1917" (Osprey /Airwar 13, 1978). There is anothe photo on the back cover of C & C Journal (US) Vol. 12, No. 3, 1971. I have no information on aircraft flown by von Bülow in other units.

Hope that is of interest,

Greg VanWyngarden
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