Fokker E. II vs. Fokker E.III

[Hans]

What where the external differences between a Fokker E.II and an E.III ?
I know that there were differences in span and lenght. But that's hard to judge from photographs. What's about the cowling? I have looked to my sources and got the feeling that the E.III mostly did have the familiar cowling with the elephant ear type side cowlings. The early E.III seems to have a squared variant ( f.e. shown in the Windsock Datafile on the E.III, first color profile).
Now my question: Did all E.II have this squared type side cowling or are there mixed types also? Is the squared type a good hindsight to identify a E II ???
Thanks in advance!
Hans Trauner

[leo]

One difference was a 31,4 foot wing span on the EII and a 32.8 wing span on the EIII.
The EIII had the curved cowll and the EII the squared off cowl. The EIII had a new gas tank. It also had improved storage for the mg ammo and a bag for spent cartridges.

leo

[Hans]

Leo, thanks for the info, but I have got all statistics from my sources. My problem is to identify a Fokker E.II or E.III from a photo. It does have the rounded, ear shaped cowling. You can't see any measurements or where the gas tank ( or filler cap) is. So my problem is: Is always a ear-shaped-cowling Fokker a E.III ? The Squadron Signal book on the E-Series indicate that there were conversion parts for the cowling.

:-/

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Hans:
* *The Fok.E.II 2/15 was the first purpose designed fighter aircraft. It was delivered with a 14sq,m. wing with a span of 8520 mm. and with a fuselage length of 7200mm. The initial Fok.E.II had the 80Ps Oberursel U.0 engine and it's empty weight was 338 kg. As soon as he new 100 Ps Oberursel U.I engines were available the production switched at Fok. E.II 20/15. With the U.I engine, the empty weight was increased to 370 kg. On the Fok. E.II the ammunition container was outside the fuselage frame and was contained in the the right side long fairing. The empty belt was stored in a aluminum box under the machine gun. The wing area was increased to 16 sq.m. and the span was increased to 9520mm on Fok. E.II 66/15 and the empty weight increased to 399 kg. *The prototype Fok. E.III 54/15 wing span was 9520 mm, length 7200 mm and height 2400mm. the empty was 399 kg. *Commencing with Fok. E.I 58/15 the left side panel was redesigned and all subsequuent Fok. E types had the simplified side fairing. *The ammunition container was moved inside the fuselage aft on Fok. E.III400/15 and the right nose side panel were redesigned. There was little difference between the late Fok.E.II and the E.III.
* * * * * * * * * * * Blauer himmel,
* * * * * * * * * * * * * Dan-San

Hans:
* *The Fok.E.II 2/15 was the first purpose designed fighter aircraft.

Dan San,
wasn't that the Vickers-Gunbus ?? Maybe I'm wrong.

Blauwe Hemel,
GJV

[Dan_San_Abbott]

GJV:
This is an interesting question. Althought I hardly would define the Vickers F.B.5 "Gun Bus"as a fighter, it was the first armed two seater, with out a doubt! They were a pre-war design that was armed from it's conception. In that sense they could be defined as the first fighter. No.7 Squadron arrived in France on 8 April 1915 with one Flight of Vickers F.B.5 machines, No.5 Squadron arrived in France on 9 May 1916 equipped with 5 Vickers F.B.5 aircraft. The first to arrive completely eqipped the Vickers F.B.5 was No.11 Squadron on 25 July 1915. No 18 Sqdn also fully equipped with the Vickers F.B.5 on 19 Nov. 1915. while these had fighting caablities they were deployed primarily as reconnaissance and Artillery spotting aircraft.
They were not fighters in the accepted sense. I still stick with my statement on that basis.
Blauwe Hemel
Dan-San

[Graeme]

Dan-San

It could be a matter of definition. Since the RFC had nothing comparable to the Fokker E, a two-seater that could look after itself was an absolute necessity. That it was not designed for, nor indeed carried out, the role of fighter should not detract from the fact that it was able to fight.

Perhaps it mght be more accurate to say that the Gunbus was the first purpose-designed fighting aeroplane (although used in the reconnaissance role) while the the Fokker was the first purpose-designed fighter?

Graeme

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Graeme:
As usual you are correct, it surprises me that the RFC heads did not see the advantages of the Vickers F.B.5 and apply the principles of defense and provide them on all their aircraft. 1913...............
Dan-San

[Droops]

What about the Bristol Scout series (C and D)? I know that the early ones didn't have any armament, but later ones appear to have had a variety of arms attached to them. Everything from rifles firing at an angle so as not to hit the propeller, to a top-mounted Lewis gun.

I know that unarmed Bristol Scouts were in service before the Fokkers, but I'm not sure if they had armament before the EI was introduced.

VBR,

John

John:
the subject of this thread is the first purpose desinged fighter aircraft.The Bristols Scout was produced and came into service after the Vickers. f.b.5.

GJV