Fokker throttle shutt-off/Fokker radiator shutters

AchimEngels · 1 December 2001, 06:26 AM

Hello Folks, Hello Dan-San,

OK here comes a difficult one:

How was the carburetor emergency shut off rod with the T-shaped handle on the right cockpit side connected to the carburetor and how was it operated?

Was it ever linked to the carburetor?

Achim

Dan_San_Abbott · 1 December 2001, 09:55 AM

Achim:
The photoggaph is of a Fok.E.V, not a DR.I. The "T" handle on the right side on the Fok.E.V/D.VIII was the oil tank on /off valve. same on the DR.I If you look close you can see the valve connected to the bottom of the tank.
On the DR.I, the fuel on /off valve is on the left side on the bottom of the throttle quadrant. You have iit shown, with the small handle directed down. You are missing the fuel manette handle on the throttle which through rods and a bell crank, inserted or extracted the needle valve from the fuel jet in the throat of the carburretor. The throttle air slide is also controlled by the big handle on the left side of the control column. The handle illustrated is that air control handle, which through rods and a bell crank operates the slide which regulates the air going into the engine. (In the yellow frame). The normal throttle is mounted on the left side of the grip by means of the Bowden cable control, one cable and housing goes to the left side of the control handle on the throttle slide and the other housing is routed to the right side and they both over ride the push rod emergency control. Look carefully in the photo you will see these Bowden housings.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

AchimEngels · 1 December 2001, 10:07 AM

Dan-San,

I know that is the E.V.

My problem is a more specific one. I have heard that Uo Jörges for instance is the opinion that the T-handle at the right cockpit side is the oil on-off cock lever, but I do not believe this at all. There is a handle directly at the oil outlet which doubtless is for the oild on off funktion.

What about Imrie´s notes in his book? He claims this is the carburetor emergency shut off.

I also do not clerly see that the rod that comes from the T-handle is connected to anything.

Apart from this there is another phottograph you doubtless know, too.

What is this? It appears to to be an connection arm that could reach to the carburetor.

Where comes your information (apart from seeing the connection in the picture above as mentioned by you) from that the T-handle is connected to the oil cock?

I am looking for this info for a long time and can not figure out that easily.

Are there any other photographs available that show this area in more detail?

I have tried to find somebody who has the original Oberursel made carburetor, but failed. Do you know someone?

Your´s
Achim

Dan_San_Abbott · 1 December 2001, 10:24 AM

Achim:
I know the handle is there which would enable you to shut off the oil tank. The question is wirth the side plywood fairings in place and the fuselage covered with fabric and NO DOOR ON THE SIDE, how do you TURN the oil tank ON or OFF? I know you can open the bottom panel and you could do it that way. In the fuselage picture it looks as though there is crank there, but why would you have the same thing on the left side of the cockpit which operates the throttle slide and a control to operate the fuel. I think Imrie is wrong here.
Confusion.........
Dan-San

AchimEngels · 1 December 2001, 10:36 AM

Dan-San,

That´s the point! Confusion! I am confused on that.

Your explaination sounds logical and that was what I thought, too, but where is proof?

I just wondered, because you said it is that way like you would know for sure.

Even if this T-Handle would opperate the carburetor, how does this work in connection with Imrie´s statement that the carburetor slide was sprung loaded to open when the bowden cable got cut. This would not work that way.

But I can just not see the connection to the oil cock that you mentioned. And then there is the fuselage photgraph that shows something total different.

Confusion all over.

Just thought you could help.

Perhaps someone else knows or has a good photograph of this mystery piece.

Achim

Dan_San_Abbott · 1 December 2001, 04:01 PM

Achim:
Think about it for a minute.
1. If you don't shut off the oil tank, through gravity, the oil would drain from the tank, which is on the right side of the tank into the engine and into the cylinders. It has to be shut off.
2. On the left side at the bottom of the throttle is the feul shut off handle. Why would you need and emergency shut off to the carburrettor, you don't. There is no float bowl, no place for fuel to collect. There is no fuel to shut off! When you shut off the fuel at the bottom of the fuel tank, the only fuel that would be left would be in the plumbing and the fuel metering valve.
Blauer Himmeln,
Dan-San

AchimEngels · 2 December 2001, 05:27 AM

Dan-San,

that sounds all logic, and I agree with you on your thoughts.

But why is there a need to shut off the oil cock in flight? I do not see it. For good reason the oil cock is in "on" position in flight, since it is directly connected to the oil pump which only delivers oil to the engine as long as it is running. The oil pipe is not connected to the engine, but to the oil pump, which in turn is connected to the engine. There will no oil drain into the engine by gravity as long as the engine is not turning.

There is good reason for the fuel on/off cock, but not for the oil on/off cock linked to the T-shaped handle.

But I want to know where this damned handle is linked to and how. In detail. To create the correct 3D models I need to know exactly.

Do you see my problem with this?

Do you have any sources on this or not?

And with respect to the needle in the carburetor, this one was not operated independently. It is connected to the airslide. This way it is shown in the american Le Róhne drawings. Do you have a different source?

Your´s
Achim

joegertler · 3 December 2001, 05:22 AM

To the best of my recollection, there is a small steel "o" ring that is attached to a long cable that goes to the rod you are referring to. I cannot remember where I saw the photos but I seem to remember that this "o" ring and cable were either attached to the control stick,just below the handle.OR it was just behind the top of the control stick. (and then, to the pin you show in photo)I still have about three of these emergency throttle shut offs around here somewhere. I did not know what they were until I found the photos I am referring to, about seven years ago. Their use as emergency throttle shut-offs was confirmed by Dr. Holger Steinle of Berlin, who you already know. I am experiencing a lot of computer problems with my photo storage site so it will be some time before I could scan and post a photo of these cables and rings...

joegertler · 3 December 2001, 06:45 AM

Here is a scan of what I believe is the emergency throttle shut-off. Don't know if image will come up with problems I've been having.
http://www.fwb.gulf.net/~barnstormer/emerthr.jpg

joegertler · 3 December 2001, 07:11 AM

Correction: the ring is brass and the snap is steel. The outside diameter of the brass ring is 28mm. Inside diameter easily accomodates your finger. I haven't read the entire threads but Dan-San seems to be referring to the normal fuel & oil shut-off valves. ( I have close-up photos for those, as well as the three-way, fuel & air valves). The regular brass/bronze fuel & *oil shut-offs are very well designed. probably better than in most of today's aircraft, with spring-tensioning and positive-locking features. I believe Achim is asking about the "emergency" throttle shut off, for when regular linkage breaks or throttle is stuck open. Pardon me if I misunderstand. There is also a long rod on side of cockpit, (usually, with a small "step" in it) with small handle for advance & retard of magneto. simple design.