RFC/RAF aircraft losses by type?

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Graeme:
I am curious, could you please list the top 10 losses in the RFC?RAF by fighter, bomber, recce, and which fighter had the lowest lost ratio? I am specificall y interesed in the S.E.5a.
Merry Christmas,
Dan-San

[Darryl]

Dan-San,

If you have Henshaw or Hobson, the losses are in the back of each. Ralleigh/Jones has the production/service figures.

It would be interesting to see how Graeme's extensive database ties in with these, given that the numbers are a byproduct in the case of the books and Graeme has a purpose built database, the bits of which I have been privelaged to see, are outstanding.

best regards

Darryl

(one of the Three Heretics*G*)

[Graeme]

Gentlemen

Appendix II from The Sky Their Battlefield gives a breakdown of Western Front losses by type. Those in triple figures are:

1. Camel (870)
2. RE8 (661)
3. SE5a (450) [+ 28 SE5]
4. DH4 (389)
5. DH9 (361)
6. BE2 (350)
7. Bristol F2b (349)
8. FE2b (311)
9. AW FK8 (212)
10. Strutter (155)
11. Nieuport 17 (114)
12. Pup (104)
13. Spad 7 (103)

I shall get the database to cough up the numbers as soon as possible to see if I come up with anything significantly different - I take it we are looking at the case where the pilot/crew was killed or PoW rather than purely recorded as a casualty?

Merry Christmas to one and all - hopefully the New Year will be less of a nightmare than this has been.

Graeme

[Graeme]

Nothing worth watching on TV so I cranked up the database.

The Sky Their Battlefield gives a Western Front loss of 5,364 (Appendix I) or 5,352 (Appendix II) aircraft. The breakdown in Appendix II would appear to record the casualties incurred by crew for each type and so does not represent aircraft that failed to return.

Using a search based on the pilot being killed or taken prisoner the database has coughed up the following losses for each type:

1. Camel (656)
2. SE5a (308)
3. RE8 (258)
4. DH4 (234)
5. DH9 (215)
6. F2B (213)
7. FE2b (169)
8. Strutter (100)
9. BE2c (94)
10. Nieuport 17 (88)
11. Pup (74)
12. Spad 7 (73)
13. FE2d (60)
14. AW FK8 (56)
15. Dolphin (50)
16. BE2e (48)
17. Triplane (48)
18. Nieuport 23 (39)
19. DH2 (38)
20. DH5 (34)
21. BE2d (32)
22. SE5 (26)
23. BE12 (25)
24. Martinsyde G100 (25)
25. DH9A (23)
26. Nieuport 27 (20)
27. FE8 (18)
28. HP O/400 (16)
29. Martinsyde G102 (16)
30. BE2g (15)
31. F2A (12)
32. HP O/100 (12)
33. Morane LA (9)
34. Snipe (8)
35. Vickers FB5 (8)
36. Morane BB (7)
37. Avro 504 (6)
38. AW FK8 (6)
39. Morane P (6)
40. Morane N (5)
41. Nieuport 16 (5)
42. Spad 13 (5)
43. Short 184 (4)
44. BE2a (3)
45. BE2f (3)
46. BE8 (3)
47. Nieuport 12 (3)
48. RE5 (3)
49. RE7 (3)
50. BE2 (2)
51. BE2b (2)
52. Breguet V (2)
53. Bristol C (2)
54. Bristol Scout (2)
55. FE2a (2)
56. MF (2)
57. Nieuport 11 (2)
58. Nieuport 21 (2)
59. Short C (2)
60. Voisin (2)
61. Bristol TB8 (1)
62. Caudron (1)
63. Farman (1)
64. Martinsyde (1)
65. Morane (1)
66. Morane L (1)
67. Morane V (1)
68. Nieuport 17a (1)
69. Nieuport 20 (1)
70. Nieuport 24 (1)
71. Short 830 (1)
72. Sopwith Baby (1)
73. Voisin L (1)
74. Voisin LA (1)

Phew, all that number-crunching has made me thirsty. Where's that bottle of Christmas port?

Cheers everyone.

Graeme

[Graeme]

Arggh! Attacked by the smilies!!

Each of the cool dudes wearing shades should be read as an 8 followed by a closing bracket.

The things I do to boost my nimber of postings

Graeme

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Graeme:
Thank you very much, and for that magnificant effort you are entitled to two extra glasses of Christmas Port, hmmmmmm, what a pleasant idea!
What now must be done, to make it relative is somehow relate it to the total number active aircraft and then divide the total active aircraft by the number lost to reveal the safest and the worst. Some how I have the feeling the worst will be the Camel. If you relate it to total built it would still be terrible 656÷5490=.119=11.9%, S.E.5a, 308÷5205=.059=5.9%. Now, I know why my Squadron has S.E.5a, right Barrett.
Merry Christmas to all me friends,
Dan-San
P.S. Keep our soldiers, sailors and airmen in our prayers and in our hearts on this day and all that follow.

[Graeme]

Dan-San

Unfortunately, I'll have to stick to a single glass of port (terribly bad for the gout, you know) and the good stuff I brought back from my holiday to Portugal earlier this year is now nothing more than a fond memory.

So, I'll just have to switch to my favourite nightcap - a glass (or two) of the Famous Grouse Scotch Whisky. It's a tough life, isn't it? Stil, my heart surgeon told me last year that taken in moderation, alcohol wouldn't kill me.

I shall certainly lift a glass to all those brave men defending democracy on our behalf, wish them well wherever they are and a safe, speedy return to their homes.

PS. Using the production figures quoted in the The Camel File and The SE5 File, the numbers come out to:

Camel – 656 ÷ 5,980 = 10.97%
SE5 – 308 ÷ 5,225 = 5.89%

I still have a suspicion that I'd have been a Camel jockey, just something about having to be always in control of the beast.

Seasons greetings to you (four minutes before Xmas, thisside of the pond).

Graeme

[leo]

Peter Fedders via Hobson states that 413 Pilots died in combat with Camel and another 385 in non-combat causes while the SE5/SE5a lost 207 and 79 respespectively.

[Graeme]

Dan-San

I have refined the query on my Access database and the numbers are now slightly different from my earlier posting.

Camel pilot losses are broken down as 349 killed in action, 19 wounded in action and later died of wounds, 283 taken prisoner and 22 died of wounds as a prisoner. This makes a total of 390 killed or died of wounds and 283 Pow, a total of 673 losses; a further 165 pilots were wounded in action.

SE5 pilot losses come to 13 killed in action, 1 wounded in action and died of wounds, 11 Pow and 2 died of wounds as a prisoner. This gives 16 killed or died of wounds plus 11 Pow, a total of 27 casualties; a further 6 pilots were wounded in action.

SE5a pilot losses are 156 killed in action, 14 wounded in action and later died of wounds, 144 Pow and 7 died of wounds as a prisoner. This makes 177 killed or died of wounds plus 144 Pow, a total of 321 losses; a further 107 pilots were wounded in action.

I have not made a study of non-combat losses so can't comment on the numbers Leo has quoted (perhaps one of these days I'll go through The Camel File and the SE5 File and make a note of training accidents etc).

Graeme

[Droops]

I would be interested in a breakdown for non-scout losses, if that wouldn't be too much trouble. I suspect that the RE8 will come out even worse than the Camel.

VBR,

John