The Aerodrome Home Page
Aces of WWI
Aircraft of WWI
Books and Film
The Aerodrome Forum
Sign the Guestbook
Help
Links to Other Sites
Medals and Decorations
The Aerodrome News
Search The Aerodrome
Today in History

Learn how to remove ads

The Aerodrome Forum

Learn how to remove ads

Go Back   The Aerodrome Forum > Archives > 2001


2001 Closed threads from 2001 (read only)

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 22 August 2001, 04:54 PM   #1 (permalink)
Grey
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I know there were Ground Attack Aircraft like the Salamander...

But were any of the players in WW1 particularly good at supporting Infantry Advances?

For instance, would Aircraft ever be used to soften up enemy trenches before an assault?
 
Old 23 August 2001, 05:31 AM   #2 (permalink)
Forum Ace
 
Volker_Nemsch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Birken-Honigsessen, Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany
Posts: 1,350
 
Hello Grey!

Germany had at least one specialised aircraft for low altitude missions / ground attack missions over no-mans-land.

It was the JUNKERS J.1, the world´s first all-metal plane. Additionaly it had a 5 mm armour-plate for protecting crew and engine against ground fire.

I´m not sure if this plane had one (or two) fixed machine guns fireing downward/forward (additionally to the guns for observer and pilot).

For further information please have a look the AIRCRAFT section of the Aerodrome.

Best regards
Volker Nemsch
__________________
.
Best regards from Germany
.
Volker Nemsch

.
Volker_Nemsch is offline  
Old 23 August 2001, 06:47 AM   #3 (permalink)
Grey
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Volker,

I'm familiar with the aircraft.

But mainly my question is concerning tactics and events which put Infantry Support tactics into action.

World War II saw the Air/Ground combined warefare, and many times I heard it said that it wasn't until Germany's invasion of Poland that this was ever put into practice.

But such aircraft as the Salamander and the Junkers J.1 at least suggest that tacticians were at least thinking about it during WW1.

I understand, for instance, that the Turks used aircraft to harrass the Bedoin on the ground, but that seemed the extent of air/ground assault that I've ever heard of.

What about Gotha Bombers attacking British or French trenches prior to an attack? Or fighters strafing to pin down the enemy to cover an infantry advance?
 
Old 23 August 2001, 07:08 AM   #4 (permalink)
Rest in Peace
 
Dan_San_Abbott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Ceres, California
Posts: 9,119
Images: 22
 

My Gallery
Grey:
In the German Army, at the Army (Armee) and Corps(Korp) level were assigned a reconnaissance unit, Flieger Abteilung (Fl. Abt.) of which, one of their duties was to provide the Armee or Korp Commander with information as to where the front line was during the attack or in defensive actions, those of these crews were called Infantry Flieger, (Infantry Flyer). In the mix of aircraft issued to these Fl.Abt. were one or two of any of the following armored aircraft: AEG J.I, AEG. J.II; Alb.J.I, Alb.J.II; Ju.J.I. The forward part of the fuselage on all these aircraft were armored with 5mm chrome steel to protect the crew and engines from small arms fire from the ground. The AEG and Alb J.types also had two machine guns to strafe enemy ground forces during these types of reconnaissance missions. They would fly very low 50 to 100 meters over the front to determine the location of the front-line troops during the flux phase of the battle. The means of identification was the color of the uniforms of the troops on the ground. Obviously, this was very dangerous. There were generally one or two of these machines assigned to a Flieger Abteilung in the their normal complement of 6 aircraft. The other aircraft in the unit would be the normal current 2 seat photo reconnaissance "C" type aircraft.
Blue skies,
Dan-San
Dan_San_Abbott is offline  
Old 23 August 2001, 07:32 AM   #5 (permalink)
Grey
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
50 meters isn't exactly pistol range, but it's getting close.

If these flights were taking place during a battle, how would the crew communicate to the ground forces in time to affect strategy?
 
Old 23 August 2001, 07:33 AM   #6 (permalink)
Rest in Peace
 
Dan_San_Abbott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Ceres, California
Posts: 9,119
Images: 22
 

My Gallery
Grey:
The second part is the real answer to your question.
In late 1916, The Fliegertruppe (Flying Troops) were reorganized and it became the Luftstreitkräfte, (Air Force). From this reorganization were formed 30 Schutzstaffeln, Schusta, (Protection flights) which were used to fly shot gun for the Fl.Abt. and Fl.Abt.A (Artillery direction flights). In late 1917, a few of these Shustas were used in infantry support during the Battle of Cambrai. They were quite successful and studies were conducted to determine how to best use them. The role was changed from protection to attack, as a result of these studies. Their designation was changed from Schutzstaffel to Schlactstaffel Schlasta, (Battle Flight). During the "Battle of France" in March 1918, they were grouped into three Schlasta and used as ground attack in infantry support, to beat trenches enemy strong points met in the attack, machine gun nests. Later they were grouped into Schlactgruppen of six Schlastas. They were very effective. They were equipped with light two seat fighters, the: Halb. Cl.II, Halb. Cl.IV; Han. Cl.II, Cl.III and Cl.IIIa. These were light "C" Class aircraft without any armor and they also flew very low over the battle field, 50 to 100 meters, and these guys had balls! :
Blue skies,
Dan-San
Dan_San_Abbott is offline  
Old 23 August 2001, 07:43 AM   #7 (permalink)
Grey
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
DanSan, THAT, Sir, is the answer I was looking for!

My utter lack of knowledge about what happened in WW1 galls me, but my suspicion, I think, is correct in that the people who made war in that period weren't stupid or backward as some seem to suggest.
 
Old 24 August 2001, 09:02 AM   #8 (permalink)
Rest in Peace
 
Dan_San_Abbott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Ceres, California
Posts: 9,119
Images: 22
 

My Gallery
Grey:
Communications between ground troops and the Infantrie Flieger were carried out by use of ground panels that would be layed out to from various symbols,i.e. an arrow ^ might indicate the point of attack. These were also used to inform the Schlasta crews. The information would be relayed to Korp or Armee Headquarters by morse code wireless or by dropping a message bag with a streamer attached. This was the real beginning of controlling the battlefield.
Blue skies,
Dan-San
Dan_San_Abbott is offline  
Old 24 August 2001, 07:49 PM   #9 (permalink)
Grey
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Dan, what I meant was, how was this physically accomplished from the Air Crew to the Ground Commanders?

Did they have to land or did they drop notes?
 
Old 25 August 2001, 06:39 AM   #10 (permalink)
Forum Ace
 
Vigilant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Devon
Posts: 979
 
Both note dropping in message bags (as mentioned by Dan San) and landing at HQ were used by the British to inform the brass about what was going on. In the RFC at least this sort of information-gathering role, called Contact Patrol, was separate from 'straffing' or contour-chasing in direct support of the infantry. Contact patrol was carried out by normal 2-seaters such as RE8's, while direct support was more usually allocated to manoeuvrable fighters such as the Camel.

The first time fighters were used in this role by the British Army was at Arras in April 1917. Contact Patrols had been going on since 1915 with mixed results.

Really it was only the invention of the mobile radio (ie walkie-talkie) that allowed commanders to influence the course of a modern battle while it was going on. Unfortunately, without such technology WW1 battles often degenerated into bloody chaos a few minutes after 'going over the top' as phone wire were cut by shell fire, and runners became casualties.
__________________
Fly a microlight - http://www.bmaa.org
Vigilant is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Tags
infantry, support


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1/48 scale British Infantry Figures Bob_D Models 4 28 January 2003 02:19 AM
Support WWW BritishSpy Games and Flight Sims 4 6 September 2002 11:04 AM
Infantry in RB3D??? Jenks 2001 6 21 December 2001 09:00 AM
Goering in the infantry Eric 2000 3 22 October 2000 07:16 PM
FFA 19 (von Poser) vs French Infantry rammjaeger 1999 1 4 December 1999 04:14 AM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright ©1997 - 2013 The Aerodrome