Availability of original engines?

[Lufbery]

All,

The holy grail for WWI enthusiasts who want to build a WWI airplane seems to be building as close a copy as possible to the original plane. (Whether a very close copy is called a replica or a reproduction is a matter of small confusion for me.)

With that in mind, what is the availability of original engines? Is anyone on this board looking for an original engine for a project? Where would you look if you wanted an original engine?

Just curious,
-Drew

[wolfenbill]

It is not easy to find original engines and they are expensive. *The most commonly available seem to be 80 hp LeRhones and some of the 180-200 hp Hispano-Suizas. *There are a few engines available on the vintage aviation, inc. website (the link is on the previous post to yours, the one regarding instruments. *Otherwise you'd have to start networking the old-fashioned way.....start talking to people in the business, like at Old Rhinebeck, our business at Old Kingsbury, etc. *Sometimes things become available for trade, cash, etc. *Old German engines are very hard to find and even more expensive (usually). *I've heard that a bunch of the old Mercedes engines were shipped to the US after the war and found their way onto our farms as water well pump engines. *It is possible there are some still out there. *Keep talking it up and you'll never know what you'll find. *Personally, I'd like to find one or two 130 hp Clerget engines. *An individual once told me that Clergets are easier to find in Europe and LeRhones are easier to find in the U.S. *I guess I should head across the pond.

I have toyed with the idea of trying to locate an original Mercedes engine for my Albatros D.Va replica. In my mind, there are more negatives than positives if I used an original engine.

On the plus side, I would have an aircraft that would essentially be a "real" Albatros. How many people alive today can say they have flown a "real" Albatros?

On the minus side, An original engine would probably double the cost to build the aircraft. I would have an aircraft that could spend years as a hangar queen if an engine part broke, even routine maintainence could keep me grounded for long periods of time. I would have an aircraft that I wouldn't feel comfortable flying far from an airport, making it more difficult to share the aircraft with others at airshows around the northeastern US. If an accident happened, or even if a part broke from normal wear, I would have destroyed something that can't be replaced, a piece of history. I wouldn't feel comfortable with that.

[Lufbery]

Rex,

Since you're not going to get an original engine, are you going to try to get an engine that appoximates as closely as possible the output and weight of the original? Also, didn't the heads of the Mercedes engine's cylinders stick up in front of the pilot? Are you planning on doing something similar?

BTW, I'm sure you're familar with this plane already, but there's a reproduction of an Alb. DV.a that was finished in 1984. It belongs to the Museum of Flight. Here's the url:

http://www.museumofflight.org/collections/...lay.html?ID=108

-Drew

Lufbery,

I have seen the D.Va at that belongs to the Museum of Flight. Very nice!

The Mercedes did run upright, with the cylinders sticking up in front of the pilot. I am leaning toward using a 1940's Ranger engine (inline 6 cylinder 200hp). They were originally installed inverted in Fairchild PT-19s, but have been converted to run cylinders-up in a few replica Albatros and Fokker D.VIIs.

[joegertler]

I hope this will serve as encouragement. For all the years my late father and I focused our collection on rare aero engines, almost everyone we asked said. "Those are all gone for many years. There are no more left. You'll never find any." We built a nice collection with little money. (We were never wealthy)
We would trade parts from our aircraft salvage yard and buy most of the engines for very affordable prices. Of the 175 different pre-WWII aero engines we kept in our permanent collection, 48 were WWI and earlier,(and several dozen more in later years) and 19 were the only ones in the world. Gnomes, LeRhones, Clergets, Hissos, Anzanis, Libertys, OX-5s, Sturtevants and even more rare and unique early engines, etc etc. Fortunately, the One-of-a-kind engines often meant there was little demand *for them in restorations and thus moderate value because of low 'demand." We just kept on writing letters, advertising, and asking every mechanic & small airport owner, if he knew where there were any old engines. Many times they were in the backs of old hangars in little remote grass strips, or in a cluttered garage or basement, and they had never thought to advertise them. After we had built a decent collection, we were then able to trade with museums for engines in their storage warehouses, when they needed one of our duplicate or spare engines. They are out there. Sometimes you'll find them after searching for years. Other times, they will just drop in your lap, after a casual comment at a flea market or auto show or airshow.
For once, I'm not "hawking" anything. Now well on the road to retirement, I've recently liquidated most of the engines and they've gone to replica builders and museums to be used to restore or recreate wonderful old aircraft designs. Right now, the balance have been spoken for. Just keep asking, writing, reading, putting out "feelers." and Good Luck."
http://www.fwb.gulf.net/~barnstormer/engnsfp.jpg

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Rex:
* *I have a young friend, who at present will be nameless,who is investigating have new 180 Ps Mercedes D.IIIaü engines built. *He wants them to be copies of the original engines dimensionly except they will have the benefit of modern metalurgy. *This will be formally announced when the situation becomes clear and fixed. *If and when it materializes, he will take orders for these engines. *His intent is to build his own Albatros D.III and he wants a good new Mercedes to put into it. A helluva good idea.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *The skies will be clearer,
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Dan-San

Dan-San;

What are the modern "technical" updates your friend has in mind for the new mercedes engines? What kind of material is he going to use? Cast Iron? Aluminum alloy? Let me know, thanks... Also, any updated word on cost? Thanks again!!

[CharlesNungesser]

Doesn´t the engine manufacturers keep their blueprints for their engines that they once made? I´m almost sure that they at least destroy the eemmmm..... :-[ moldings, (is moldings the correct word?) right? Would it be cheaper to build new ones after the old plans? Do the changes just where it is needed. Then you at least wouldn´t be afraid to use your aircraft. Having your own WWI fighter would be so *;D Say If you wanted a Mercedes engine, would it be a good idea to contact Mercedes? Or would they slam the door in your face? I guess that some of the other could be harder to find. But there has to be blueprints somewhere.

[wolfenbill]

One of my aircraft building companions told me that Mercedes does still possess the blueprints of the original engines but refuses to release them. I guess it's a liability issue.